Split tree, Way beyond my capability to fell.

[CentaurG2]

Necessity is the mother of invention!! My hats off to you and just for the record, you would make a right fine Yankee!! Keep up the good work!

 

[2dogs]

I use it for burning out stumps all the time - cheap as chips, legal everywhere. Use a magnesium ribbon tripled over and twisted as a fuse to make sure it lights first time, and light the ribbon up with a blowtorch. I fell trees around the island and when I wander round drunk late at night "exploring" with just a head torch, I don't want to be tripping over stumps.
I also use it to "pin-drill" cast iron water pipes if I'm not sure if they are pressurised or not - as soon as the thermite burns through the pipe, if the pipe is empty then it just drops in. If it's full and at a high pressure, as soon as it penetrates it'll blow the thermite all over the place in a spray, and you just get a hole about 2mm wide in the pipe which you can easily plug.
Last year one of our digger (backhoe in the US?)drivers put a pecker (used to crack concrete) through a pipe from a fire reservoir - a 200psi 9" cast iron pipe puts out a lot of water...

Every now and then a dude will punch a hole in a gas pipe with a backoe. Makes for an interesting sight esp if it is a high pressure gas line.

 

[Labman]

Doesn't anyone else think by the picture it is leaning toward the building? All I can say is that if it was me, I hope I would have the good sense to leave it to somebody with the skill and equipment to do it.

 

[Paul001]

Just me...but this is the way that i would prolly cut it....i hate to give recommendations without being there....but im guessing this is the way that i would do it...i'm not saying this is the right way since i cannot see the tree in person.

i would put in a shallow face.. bore in through split and set a hinge(leave a thick one because that is prolly all that is holding the tree) cut towards back of tree...watching ahead and at the kerf. if it holds cut the trigger wood across the back...

as i said before i wouldn't be surprised if the tree goes over as you are setting the hinge because i believe that is the only wood holding it.

don't take this as gospel, this is most likely the way that i would do it.

i wouldn't use any binders or chains....that is just because i don't want anything hitting me in the head if the tree barberchairs and the straps or chains break

Understand your concern with the chains. Figured I wanted to clarify this in case others attempted to try this technique in the future. First only use proof tested logging chain. Only use binders, as tempting as it is to use ratcheting binders don't use them for anything other than pulling in the load/split before attaching a second chain and using a binder, and then securing the binder.

I've used the straps many times while aloft. They are easier to handle, so in some cases would be safer than someone half-assing a chain/binder setup. Still I do not like them. We are not talking about static loads or pressures. When you start calculating the active forces involved with the compression of wood it gets scary, fast.

I've had a poster hanging in my ready rooms for years:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=18910

Those who've seen it will notice while making the topping cut the chains used to reduce the possibility of barber chairing. I figured after seeing that, and calculating the loads later on, if that chain was capable of withstanding the load in that application, I was well within safety limits

Barber chairing is going to happen, learn to identify when there is a high probability and cutting/binding techniques to reduce the threat.

A tip of the hat to the Scottsman for bringing a great teaching example here. Thank you Sir.

 

[PatrickIreland]

Every now and then a dude will punch a hole in a gas pipe with a backoe. Makes for an interesting sight esp if it is a high pressure gas line.

I used to work for the gas company over here as a design engineer, and do call-outs as well.
One day, despite the "GAS!!!" "GAS!!!!" lines we had drawn on the road the guy from the water Co. managed to completely sever a 7 bar plastic gas line. The noise was so deafening he just got out and ran away, after turning off the digger (his house keys were on the same ring, must have wanted to get home that night!).
Immediate evacuation by the cops of everyone nearby and all power shut off. It was about 7 minutes before we got it shut off ( had to get a cop car to push a parked car off a valve cover - with no regards as to damage!), and in that 7 minutes we lost enough gas to power that town of 100,000 people for a year and a half. The water board paid the bill, I suspect the guy isn't working a digger anymore!
It was terrifying though, the noise. I was stood right next to it (no explosion risk, too much gas and not enough air), with an air helmet on, and earplugs, and I could feel my flesh vibrating.

Just lucky it wasn't at the local station where the trans-sea pipeline comes in - it's at 75 bar, 24" pipe. But it's protected by a VERY electric fence and is across the road from an army barracks with full-time surveillance and gun towers...

 

[PatrickIreland]

Interested in your reply. I have no chains (well, I do have, but not proper ones!, but I have a load of 5 ton ratchet straps. Bear in mind I will NOT be felling anything this size, condition, or anything like it in the near future - purely hypothetical.
What if I was to put say 3 straps below and 3 straps above the cut with the top and bottom strap of the 6 close to the cut, 3 either side? What would be likely to happen?
I'm an amateur, learning slowly but surely, and wouldn't even walk near that tree let alone try to fell it unless I was a long, long, way away... would it rip the straps off, or fall uncontrollably in any direction it wanted to, or what? And if I had the aforementioned 5 tonne tractor and wire rope pulling it where I wanted it to fall?

Understand your concern with the chains. Figured I wanted to clarify this in case others attempted to try this technique in the future. First only use proof tested logging chain. Only use binders, as tempting as it is to use ratcheting binders don't use them for anything other than pulling in the load/split before attaching a second chain and using a binder, and then securing the binder.

I've used the straps many times while aloft. They are easier to handle, so in some cases would be safer than someone half-assing a chain/binder setup. Still I do not like them. We are not talking about static loads or pressures. When you start calculating the active forces involved with the compression of wood it gets scary, fast.

I've had a poster hanging in my ready rooms for years:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=18910

Those who've seen it will notice while making the topping cut the chains used to reduce the possibility of barber chairing. I figured after seeing that, and calculating the loads later on, if that chain was capable of withstanding the load in that application, I was well within safety limits

Barber chairing is going to happen, learn to identify when there is a high probability and cutting/binding techniques to reduce the threat.

A tip of the hat to the Scottsman for bringing a great teaching example here. Thank you Sir.

 

[Nitroman]

Only other way I could think of dropping it without having to resort to ropes would be to rent a large excavator and push it over with the bucket at full-boom extension. Unfortunately a Cat 385 isn't the easiest excavator to pack around. You could try cutting the roots with a Ditch Witch-type machine.
www.ditchwitch.com

 

[tatra805]

completely off topic but this 24'' 75bar pipe and a spark look as this

Gellingen Belgium 30.07.2004

 

[Paul001]

Interested in your reply. I have no chains (well, I do have, but not proper ones!, but I have a load of 5 ton ratchet straps. Bear in mind I will NOT be felling anything this size, condition, or anything like it in the near future - purely hypothetical.
What if I was to put say 3 straps below and 3 straps above the cut with the top and bottom strap of the 6 close to the cut, 3 either side? What would be likely to happen?
I'm an amateur, learning slowly but surely, and wouldn't even walk near that tree let alone try to fell it unless I was a long, long, way away... would it rip the straps off, or fall uncontrollably in any direction it wanted to, or what? And if I had the aforementioned 5 tonne tractor and wire rope pulling it where I wanted it to fall?

What would likely happen? Nothing. They should hold.

Based on a few comments of your, I'm guessing you have a B.S.M.E. so let me toss a few numbers out.

36" DBH x 100'
60LBS/sq. ft.

For leads I always calculated weight at base dia. x length. For full trees I doubled that.

Thats your static load that is now going to be compressed into a very small area. Now start moving that tree forward...folcum.

Crunch those numbers for a few minutes Those 5 ton straps can go pop pretty quickly.

I'm headed out to take the oldest son to basketball. I'll work some numbers up later tonight for you.

 

[scotclayshooter]

Only other way I could think of dropping it without having to resort to ropes would be to rent a large excavator and push it over with the bucket at full-boom extension. Unfortunately a Cat 385 isn't the easiest excavator to pack around. You could try cutting the roots with a Ditch Witch-type machine.
www.ditchwitch.com

That would do it lol
I think the cost of hire + transport would be silly money even compared to taking it down from the top.
Plenty Excavators around doing nothing just now as theres not a lot of construction happening.

 

[scotclayshooter]

Doesn't anyone else think by the picture it is leaning toward the building? All I can say is that if it was me, I hope I would have the good sense to leave it to somebody with the skill and equipment to do it.

The tree near the building is another one from the split one.
Its not going to hit the building but would be close if it went the wrong way But that one would be fairly easy.

 

[PatrickIreland]

B.S.M.E.? Is That a Bachelors of Science Mechanical Engineering?
I'm a chartered Mechanical Engineer, if that's the equivalent - but we like to mix up the numbers. I'm 6 feet tall, weigh around 15 stone. My house is about 1000sq ft (no kids thank god, no wife thank god!)
Land is measured in acres, distance in miles. Weight is in Kilos unless it's a person. Dimensions are in mm or metres depending on the size of the job.
Beer is served in pints (20 oz, not 16), wine is bought by the 750ml bottle.
We like to mix it up a bit...

What would likely happen? Nothing. They should hold.

Based on a few comments of your, I'm guessing you have a B.S.M.E. so let me toss a few numbers out.

36" DBH x 100'
60LBS/sq. ft.

For leads I always calculated weight at base dia. x length. For full trees I doubled that.

Thats your static load that is now going to be compressed into a very small area. Now start moving that tree forward...folcum.

Crunch those numbers for a few minutes Those 5 ton straps can go pop pretty quickly.

I'm headed out to take the oldest son to basketball. I'll work some numbers up later tonight for you.

 

[Taxmantoo]

Just that scotclayshooter's tree is likely to hinge twenty feet up and the slap from the moving part would launch whoever is in the way. That is one dangerous tree.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say when I drew that red circle up there and suggested that is where it would chair.

 

[PatrickIreland]

Crunch those numbers for a few minutes Those 5 ton straps can go pop pretty quickly.

Faster than I can run 100ft (30.48 metres, hehe) from the Polish guy with the chinese 18" saw?

 

[scotclayshooter]

B.S.M.E.? Is That a Bachelors of Science Mechanical Engineering?
I'm a chartered Mechanical Engineer, if that's the equivalent - but we like to mix up the numbers. I'm 6 feet tall, weigh around 15 stone. My house is about 1000sq ft (no kids thank god, no wife thank god!)
Land is measured in acres, distance in miles. Weight is in Kilos unless it's a person. Dimensions are in mm or metres depending on the size of the job.
Beer is served in pints (20 oz, not 16), wine is bought by the 750ml bottle.
We like to mix it up a bit...

O bugger im 5'8" and 14 stone 10.
When watching TV and some American is 300 lbs i need to take out the calculator to find out how much of a lardarse the are.
For rough work its feet and inches for accurate work MM.

 

[scotclayshooter]

Faster than I can run 100ft (30.48 metres, hehe) from the Polish guy with the chinese 18" saw?

Ive found many of the Polish to be hard workers and bloody clever!
We had a Architect trimming plastic as he could make more money here doing that than working in Poland!
Yep many of them are just trouble!
We have a Polish section in the supermarket they have dedicated shops and wet paint signs are in dual language!
In a 50,000 people city 2000 are Poles!

 

[7sleeper]

I am very sorry but you Americans & English & Irish all have no idea!

The only way to remedy this situation is very simple!

Fill it with cement! It will hold 1000 years! :jawdrop:

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

Whatever you do be careful and safe!

Good luck and be safe!

7sleeper

 

[PatrickIreland]

We had a few Polish Guys working for us a couple of summers ago, can't name the company but it was ***** Waste, where ***** is my nationality.
They worked like you would not believe - dragging huge heavy corrogated suction pipes up a 45 degree grass slope over one shoulder and running it, not walking it!
5 fellas, one N. Irish who spoke English, the rest Polish. They worked harder than anyone I've ever seen. But they were picky about their tea breaks - come 11AM even if the pipe was half way up the hill, drop it and walk back down for half an hour of sitting in the tanker eating whatever little pastie things they eat. Then dead on the end of the half hour, they would jump out and start pulling the pipes up again.
I lay on the grassy bank, supervising of course. 2 days of that and I had the worst sunburn ever...

Ive found many of the Polish to be hard workers and bloody clever!
We had a Architect trimming plastic as he could make more money here doing that than working in Poland!
Yep many of them are just trouble!
We have a Polish section in the supermarket they have dedicated shops and wet paint signs are in dual language!
In a 50,000 people city 2000 are Poles!

 

[PatrickIreland]

O bugger im 5'8" and 14 stone 10.
When watching TV and some American is 300 lbs i need to take out the calculator to find out how much of a lardarse the are.
For rough work its feet and inches for accurate work MM.

I'm not actually 15 stone I'm about 11 and a half - I got the pounds mixed up with the stones...:blush:

 

[char]

I think you'd have a pretty good chance of that tree coming down even putting a face cut in. Pretty high likelyhood of pinching a bar on the face as well.

I'd be worried about it failing at that crack about 10-12 ft up. Not so much at the backcut (if boring and then cutting out), especially after setting the hinge forward of that crack like sillogger was saying.

Too hard to tell from pictures really.

>>Take home message is really what the original poster said anyways. "I'm in over my head and I'm not going near that one!"<<<