No More Logger's

[Gologit]

Yes, and on the other tree hugging site where they hate me, somebody will start a thread warning that Logging Is Going To Happen. Apparently that always is bad to them, and means clearcutting, which isn't bad but is to them, is going to be the method used, and deforestation will occur.

Even locally, folks who are not involved in woods work will shudder about an area being logged.

Why is logging always equated with being bad?

I start by questioning the complainer as to HOW is it going to be logged? They usually can't answer this question. So, we've got people who don't know what they are talking about, informing others, which makes for
The Circle Of BS and I'll still mention Sensitive New Age Logging and anything else to try to keep the trees hitting the ground. That's the important thing to remember, keep the trees hitting the ground.

In other words, we have to change our ways to suit them? We have to cat-foot around in order not to offend them?

Why play their game? The information about responsible, environmentally friendly logging is available to them...they choose to ignore it.

There's a world of good information out there about how we log now. It's based on science, good forest practises, and actual experience. If the enviros would rather react emotionally and ignore real world information and experience I don't see where I should have to do more than I'm already doing.

I recognize the fact that you and I log in what amounts to two seperate, and very different, worlds. You're on Federal ground, I work on private ground. The Feds might feel the pressure more than we do and they might feel like they have to pretty things up to satisfy a bunch of very loud and opinionated people. That isn't happening with us quite as much. I'm grateful for that.

 

[Burvol]

In other words, we have to change our ways to suit them? We have to cat-foot around in order not to offend them?

Why play their game? The information about responsible, environmentally friendly logging is available to them...they choose to ignore it.

There's a world of good information out there about how we log now. It's based on science, good forest practises, and actual experience. If the enviros would rather react emotionally and ignore real world information and experience I don't see where I should have to do more than I'm already doing.

I recognize the fact that you and I log in what amounts to two seperate, and very different, worlds. You're on Federal ground, I work on private ground. The Feds might feel the pressure more than we do and they might feel like they have to pretty things up to satisfy a bunch of very loud and opinionated people. That isn't happening with us quite as much. I'm grateful for that.

As you say, different worlds, but this is even worse. DNR sales in WA state, what RMZ??? Plug the creeks, the ones on the west side that actually hold Salmon stocks below. Private ground? A trickle of water goes through there once a year for two weeks, STAY OUT!

It's hypocracy, and it's disgusting. I have done this. I was actually told to go ahead and plug some creeks a few times on State ground. The control game is nothing more than just that.

 

[Bushler]

The GreenPeople should be delighted with how the failing economy has put loggers out of business.

Maybe that was the plan all along.

 

[Burvol]

The GreenPeople should be delighted with how the failing economy has put loggers out of business.

Maybe that was the plan all along.

I think Al Gore proved a long time ago that saving the Mother was a profitable business.

Where you been Paul?

 

[PB]

In other words, we have to change our ways to suit them? We have to cat-foot around in order not to offend them?

Why play their game? The information about responsible, environmentally friendly logging is available to them...they choose to ignore it.

There's a world of good information out there about how we log now. It's based on science, good forest practises, and actual experience. If the enviros would rather react emotionally and ignore real world information and experience I don't see where I should have to do more than I'm already doing.

I recognize the fact that you and I log in what amounts to two seperate, and very different, worlds. You're on Federal ground, I work on private ground. The Feds might feel the pressure more than we do and they might feel like they have to pretty things up to satisfy a bunch of very loud and opinionated people. That isn't happening with us quite as much. I'm grateful for that.

Do you have to cat-foot around them? Yes you do. Whether you like it or not they are the ones that get the media's attention and with the national "green" craze they will sway more votes than the loggers do. The hard reality of it is, most environmentalists are educated (book smarts not common sense) and have the educational background to get jobs that make decisions about policy. Even though the science and common sense is not in their arsenal of tricks, it doesn't matter as long as they can get someone to agree with their rhetoric. It snowballs from there.

You can't deny that logging has always been scientifically sound and this environmental movement started with logging abuses that started decades ago. If former loggers had the science information they do now, back then I don't think there would be such a dilemma now. But each side has had their extremists that have further polarized the groups so now a middle ground is pretty hard to obtain.

I also don't think you can deny that the science that has come from the greenies is all bad. Some is crap but I will agree that the forests now are healthier than they were 30 years ago. As an east coaster I want to see the large trees someday and I want my kids to see them also. The trees are part of the American heritage and not a regional treasure. If logging was allowed to run free a large part of that heritage would be gone.

Don't get me wrong, I empathize with your situation, but it is give and take and we need both sides for a balance.

A logger by any other name still cuts down trees and "murders" them. Just like deer "harvester".

 

[wilbilt]

All this cutsie-pie labeling and eco-friendly catch phrase stuff just shows that we're willing to change who and what we are just to get along. We shouldn't have to do that.

The enviros and the socially sensitive govenment people can call it any damn thing they want. It's still logging.

And I'm still a logger.

Although I am not employed in your profession, all of the environmentally-friendly, politically-correct BS that is being spoon fed to the masses is really getting irritating.

Everything from CARB gas cans to diesel particulate filters to those yellow bumpy mats in parking lots are useless examples of bureaucratic over-regulation.

When I attempt to empty the contents of a 5-gallon CARB can and it takes 5 minutes to gurgle out and splash all over the place, I cannot believe that it is supposed to be better for the environment. I am standing there breathing the escaping fumes for far longer than it would take to dump a standard vented can. Oh, and it's no longer a "gas can". It's a Portable Fuel Container (PFC).

We have a couple of new school buses in our fleet with diesel particulate filters (DPF). When they get full, the exhaust goes into overheat mode, so all the soot can be burned off over the course of a couple of miles (which, I guess must be better than randomly dispersing it like the old buses?).


The Detectable Tactile Warning Mats are supposed to help Vision-Impaired Individuals (you can't say "blind people" anymore) avoid walking into traffic (or I suppose, falling into a stream or walking off a cliff). However, they present a trip hazard to everyone else and are slippery when wet. How do they come up with stuff like this in the name of "safety"?

In our schools, students are taught a rewritten and sanitized version of history, in which lots of Bad Things never happened. Many books are banned in the libraries, because they refer to some of those Bad Things, or even worse, promote Individual Thought.

The shop classes have been discontinued and the shop is now a weight room. I suppose this may be to prepare the underachievers for a life in prison, whereas the shop class may have helped them to learn how to actually build something. Instead, they are taught how to answer the questions on the State Tests, because the state believes this will enable them to grow up and look down upon those who work for a living.

At school too, they are faced with with a bewildering array of ADA-compliant safety structures and are herded around by railings like rats in a maze. Even the playgrounds and equipment protect them from themselves, with surfaces covered in rubber matting made from recycled tires (I thought tires contained carcinogens?) or possibly some fiber material from Genuine Renewable Forest Products. The historic playground covering, called "sand", is no longer allowed, because it is "unsanitary" and cats like to crap in it.

I prefer the days when things were called what they are, improvements actually made things better, and we were taught to be responsible for our actions.

 

[slowp]

In other words, we have to change our ways to suit them? We have to cat-foot around in order not to offend them?

Why play their game? The information about responsible, environmentally friendly logging is available to them...they choose to ignore it.

There's a world of good information out there about how we log now. It's based on science, good forest practises, and actual experience. If the enviros would rather react emotionally and ignore real world information and experience I don't see where I should have to do more than I'm already doing.

I recognize the fact that you and I log in what amounts to two seperate, and very different, worlds. You're on Federal ground, I work on private ground. The Feds might feel the pressure more than we do and they might feel like they have to pretty things up to satisfy a bunch of very loud and opinionated people. That isn't happening with us quite as much. I'm grateful for that.

Yes, we do have do that here. In the words of a deceased logger, That's Just The Way Things Are. Now, does anybody know where the oil drain plug is located on a Chevy Colorado? That's kind of important right now.

As for politically correct language..it sucks.

 

[Gologit]

Yes, we do have do that here. In the words of a deceased logger, That's Just The Way Things Are. Now, does anybody know where the oil drain plug is located on a Chevy Colorado? That's kind of important right now.

As for politically correct language..it sucks.

Look at the bottom of the oil pan. They're usually at one end or the other or on one side or the other.

 

[PB]

Yes, we do have do that here. In the words of a deceased logger, That's Just The Way Things Are. Now, does anybody know where the oil drain plug is located on a Chevy Colorado? That's kind of important right now.

As for politically correct language..it sucks.

It's on the oil pan.

 

[Gologit]

It's on the oil pan.

opcorn: opcorn: Patty must be changing oil. And she doesn't sound too cheerful about it.

 

[slowp]

:censored: :censored: :censored: new pickups. It has some big pieces of shielding underneath, I can't even see the oil pan or I'd have it draining by now. The filter is right out in the open. I've also got a "helpful" dog assisting.
I'll go look again.

 

[Gologit]

:censored: :censored: :censored: new pickups. It has some big pieces of shielding underneath, I can't even see the oil pan or I'd have it draining by now. The filter is right out in the open. I've also got a "helpful" dog assisting.
I'll go look again.

In all those pieces of shielding there should be a hole, probably about the size of a half dollar. Shine a light up there and see if you can see a drain plug. You might need a socket and an extension to remove the plug if this is the case.

And, before you take the plug out, think about how hard it might be to thread it back in there. If you cross thread a pan plug you're in for some grief.

Would the owner's manual have the plug location?

And there's always Jiffy Lube.

 

[blackoak]

I always called them crazy sob's that you sure as hell didn't want to piss off.:greenchainsaw:

 

[PB]

Hey slowP, see if there is a little door that opens up to the drain plug in all that shielding.

 

[slowp]

In all those pieces of shielding there should be a hole, probably about the size of a half dollar. Shine a light up there and see if you can see a drain plug. You might need a socket and an extension to remove the plug if this is the case.

And, before you take the plug out, think about how hard it might be to thread it back in there. If you cross thread a pan plug you're in for some grief.

Would the owner's manual have the plug location?

And there's always Jiffy Lube.

Hey, we got an oil thread going on here. Jiffy lube is 60+ miles away. The one time I used them, I took the time to look under the hood after they were done and found a cap they left off of one of the vital fluids. There's making an appointment in advance with the local guy, who is not in a convenient location. I took a nap in his office the last time though.

I think I found it. Much easier to do with the dog in the house. There's a little square cut in the shield. It is a smaller sized head on the plug than I've ever seen though.

The weather has gone from sun to trying to snow so I'm going to go work on firewood, which is a product of logging being bad but firewooding good. Another messed up thing that the environmental community believes. Maybe because they burn wood?

 

[Gologit]

Do you have to cat-foot around them? Yes you do.

No, I don't. And I won't either. I'll stick my thumb in their eye every damn chance I get.

That being said, I say further. I'll do it because I can get away with it. I can get away with it now and maybe for awhile longer. Maybe, if I'm lucky, I can do it until the day I can't pack out anymore.

But the younger guys coming up behind me, will they be able to do that and get away with it? No, they won't. You're right about things changing and the loggers that will take my place when I step aside will live in a very different world. The enviros and bunny huggers know how to use the media and they know how to use law. Loggers, to survive, had damn well better learn how, too.

The next generation of loggers will face problems and challenges that I never had to deal with. Us old guys can cuss political correctness and the environmentalists all we want but it's going to be part of the way things are. There is no getting around that.

The younger guys will have to develop tools to deal with the changes in their world . I think they can do it. But I don't envy them.

In the meantime there has to be somebody around to laugh right in the face
of some of these self-appointed saviors of the planet. I'll be glad to take that job.

Like John D. MacDonald said..."Beware of people who take their crusades too seriously".

 

[Burvol]

A new set of rules to play by (more every year) bad, bad lumber markets, and a new animal or invertibrate is sure to be threatened next. I'd say it's a great time to jump into the business

 

[Gologit]

A new set of rules to play by (more every year) bad, bad lumber markets, and a new animal or invertibrate is sure to be threatened next. I'd say it's a great time to jump into the business

LMAO...It's too late for you, bucko...you already done jumped. You'll be alright, though. Just help the kids coming up behind you.

 

[redprospector]

Hahaha. Isn't it funny how when we're talking about a topic that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, we can alway's turn to the good old oil topic?

I felt pretty bad about it when me and just about everyone else around here was demoted from logger to thinning contractor. We all still consider ourselves loggers, we just have to cut a lot more crap. This politically correct name changing is just more than I care to swallow.
Whoever said that the forest's are healthier now than 30 years ago hasn't been to the south west. In the 70's the Lincoln NF was being logged, and was in much better shape than it is now. Hell, it's dieing right before our eye's and the enviro's couldn't care less. We can't even salvage what has died because it's cheaper for the FS to cave into the nut cases than to fight them.
My biggest question is; Who is a true environmentalist, the person who spends their life in the forest, making a living and making sure it's still there for their grand children to make a living in, or some wacco self rightous sack of :censored: that might spend 3 weekends a year in the forest?
I'm a LOGGER, and alway's will be!

Andy

 

[forestryworks]

Hahaha. Isn't it funny how when we're talking about a topic that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, we can alway's turn to the good old oil topic?

I felt pretty bad about it when me and just about everyone else around here was demoted from logger to thinning contractor. We all still consider ourselves loggers, we just have to cut a lot more crap. This politically correct name changing is just more than I care to swallow.
Whoever said that the forest's are healthier now than 30 years ago hasn't been to the south west. In the 70's the Lincoln NF was being logged, and was in much better shape than it is now. Hell, it's dieing right before our eye's and the enviro's couldn't care less. We can't even salvage what has died because it's cheaper for the FS to cave into the nut cases than to fight them.
My biggest question is; Who is a true environmentalist, the person who spends their life in the forest, making a living and making sure it's still there for their grand children to make a living in, or some wacco self rightous sack of :censored: that might spend 3 weekends a year in the forest?
I'm a LOGGER, and alway's will be!

Andy

somebody rep this man. i'm out.

great post andy, especially the last paragraph