bcorradi
Arboristsite.com Sponsor
Just out of curiosity...if this cylinder was a new "Mahle" would this thread have taken a different course?
Crappy Stihl Cylinder - Looks like ChiCom Garbage!!!
- Thread starter blsnelling
- Start date
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I doubt such beauty could have been produced in western europe, but in such case, Stihl could have gotten away with a "quality inspection default", but alas...
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bcorradi
Arboristsite.com Sponsor
I think you are right.
All for one bad casting....out of millions. Just shows the angst against the ones who claim perfection and omni knowledge here at this site vs. anything real about Stihl. Get out doors and run those saws more!
fredmc
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey THALL haha
Hey THALL! Ha Ha look at that stihl turd cylinder! Looks like a crapsman/poulan cylinder. What do the have in VA? Illegal immigrants working in a cylinder sweatshop? for shame. Haha so much for being numbah one.
stihl sux.
Dolmars and Makitas have Mahle cylinders.
Hey THALL! Ha Ha look at that stihl turd cylinder! Looks like a crapsman/poulan cylinder. What do the have in VA? Illegal immigrants working in a cylinder sweatshop? for shame. Haha so much for being numbah one.
stihl sux.
Dolmars and Makitas have Mahle cylinders.
Fastcast
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is cast from a mold so it's not just one bad cylinder. Obviously Stihl approved the mold for production....How many times does it need to be said? 
Now, if you want to continue making excuses by claiming one bad mold that slipped through, have at it....Maybe we can go another 900 post.
Now, if you want to continue making excuses by claiming one bad mold that slipped through, have at it....Maybe we can go another 900 post.
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
I know what happened! That cylinder was indeed culled in the inspection process but the fork lift driver put a pallet of culls onto the assembly line by mistake. Relax, quality control is as really as diligent as ever!
The emotional baggage clouding this thread, both pro and con, and all the performing for the cameras, reminds me of camera coverage of politicians at work on an issue. I dont agree with the deliberately inflamatory language used for the thread opener because that just about guaranteed that everyone else would be free to do the same and the award then goes to the most bizarre and outrageous statements. I agree with Brad's appraisal of its appearance though.
Quibbling over the suggestion that the sloppiness that WILL affect performance, doesn't matter, is ridiculous. That is a case of the defense being more a fraud than the original act.
The chipped plating and the possibility of further shedding is the most worrisome longevity related issue, but that well could have been a handling accident after the last inspection. I dont like the deliberate decision to cut the recess in the top of the cylinder portion but that is an issue for modders who want to cut the base and drop the cylinder down; you cant blame the manufacturer for having little sympathy for that when it saves them dollars in accurately finishing the normal traveled portion of the stock cylinder bore.
I hope that this is not a general industry trend as has been suggested as it is at least an apparent drop in pride and it would be a sad thing to see happening. Is someone going to be making a post in the future railing about the crappy looking product that American junk has become.
The emotional baggage clouding this thread, both pro and con, and all the performing for the cameras, reminds me of camera coverage of politicians at work on an issue. I dont agree with the deliberately inflamatory language used for the thread opener because that just about guaranteed that everyone else would be free to do the same and the award then goes to the most bizarre and outrageous statements. I agree with Brad's appraisal of its appearance though.
Quibbling over the suggestion that the sloppiness that WILL affect performance, doesn't matter, is ridiculous. That is a case of the defense being more a fraud than the original act.
The chipped plating and the possibility of further shedding is the most worrisome longevity related issue, but that well could have been a handling accident after the last inspection. I dont like the deliberate decision to cut the recess in the top of the cylinder portion but that is an issue for modders who want to cut the base and drop the cylinder down; you cant blame the manufacturer for having little sympathy for that when it saves them dollars in accurately finishing the normal traveled portion of the stock cylinder bore.
I hope that this is not a general industry trend as has been suggested as it is at least an apparent drop in pride and it would be a sad thing to see happening. Is someone going to be making a post in the future railing about the crappy looking product that American junk has become.
mowoodchopper
Polar Bear
This is cast from a mold so it's not just one bad cylinder. Obviously Stihl approved the mold for production....How many times does it need to be said?
Now, if you want to continue making excuses by claiming one bad mold that slipped through, have at it....Maybe we can go another 900 post.
:agree2:
This is cast from a mold so it's not just one bad cylinder. Obviously Stihl approved the mold for production....How many times does it need to be said?
Now, if you want to continue making excuses by claiming one bad mold that slipped through, have at it....Maybe we can go another 900 post.
I think your premis is off actually. You make huge assumptions about the entire manufacturing & QA process that I think are easy to assert on posts like this but in reality are not valid.
Manufacturing by nature is a "moving target". Especially the casting process with finishing operations. The game is to keep all things within a tolerance...and there are many things conspiring to keep parts out of tolerance.
Porosity usually isn't about a bad mold, but can radically effect down stream operations geometrically. Several factors could produce that porosity. From material (alloy could have been out of spec for that casting) to process. Also fixturing for any finishing process can be off for a variety of reasons. Doesn't damn the entire design thru manufacturing process because of one bad cylinder casting that also effects down stream processes. My bet is this was produced right after a setup from either maintenance or new manufacturing components. First few usually are tossed. One got thru.
If many of you folks found this stuff...then you all would have something to be crowing about. But this? Come on. This is why warrentee's are there, to catch stuff like that cylinder. And I wonder how long it would have performed had no one pulled apart that saw.
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So Brad should be out buying lottery tickets? He got the one bad cylinder that made it through, and that was the only cylinder they did the crap finish on? Those probabilities have to be multiplied together...or do the poor materials somehow shift the beveling on the ports?
No-one is saying (except in jest), based on this one cylinder, that Stihl sucks (except in jest). BUT something done this piss-poorly raises question about a potential change in Stihl's standards.
The response to this question was not what I would have expected (take it to Stihl and they will publicly execute a couple of employees and mill you a cylinder from a titanium billet for your troubles). The response was "who cares, it <i>might</i> still run". That straw man was built larger when Brad changed his mind about sending the cylinder to Joat, because "now we will never know how the cylinder would run."
Take a look at the corner of this transfer:
I don't need to pull the chord to know my saw won't start if I pull the plug wire off, and I don't need to run that cylinder to know that corner is not going to be kind to the piston rings.
So..the question that needs answering is not: "will it run?" What we need to find out is what Stihl says when Brad confronts them with this turd of a cylinder.
Valid question..so the antena is up...and if we don't hear or see anymore..then this will be as I suspect..an anomoly.
Take a look at the corner of this transfer:
.
Yes..I saw AND I know what I'm looking at. I spent my early years as a Manufacturing Engineer servicing a Cast Iron, Cast Steel, AND Cast Aluminum Foundry & Machining the resultant castings...and probably one of the first in this country to use "part probing" on a CNC Horizontal Milling machine to adjust programs for casting flaws....specialized in applying CNC to help supplement the then dying art of Pattern making. Also spent 25plus year racing motorcycles(MX and other offroad stuff)..matched many a port in those early days. Especially on those 125-250 Two strokes from Spain.
If that melt had issues or the mold failed to function properly ( Obviously there is Hydrogen Porosity all thru it and issues along the Parting Line both symtomatic of the origional issue) my bet is the casting is dimensionally off a bit as well. So when fixtured, all things done from that point down stream have a higher probability of being off.
Also a valid question. We will wait and see. My bet is another cylinder will be on the way..and then this turns into YET Another a Stihl customer support success story, right?
But to me the bottom line is all manufacturing processes are going to have parts go bad from time to time. The QA process catches some and customers others. To this point in time ONE cylinder out of thousands and thousands from Stihl stumbled into the hands of someone (influential on this BB) who posted that pic.....until there is a trend, this is WAY over blown. When others find similar issues..then we can start making speculations about Stihl's QA..until then? I'm waiting for ANY real evidence that would prove this is the norm and not an anomoly.
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Absolutely, and that is what I'm hoping for. I like to poke fun at Stihl owners (which is harder to do now that I am one!), but only in fun. This is sad, not funny, and I'm sincerely hoping Stihl does the right thing, so that I can go back to making fun of Stihl owners.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
They are too busy saying it does not affect performance to do the right thing such as; protest to the mighty corp and stand up for their customers.
And who are "they", the folks at Stihl customer service or dealers who will interface with Stihl? Or those who argue here as they don't have enough to do.
I would be concerned if it was a Stihl employee, less so if its a Stihl dealer, but not at all if "they" are those here who believe they are some extension of Stihl's corperate marketing department.
And really...you can always find another Stihl dealer..maybe one of these "new to Stihl", JD "customer oriented" folks.
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ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Lol so some of these dealers just believe or play like they are?
No idea...:greenchainsaw:
And to you 15,000 something who view this....this Cylinder is STIHL just an Anomoly! Only ONE to this point in time! Keep that in mind...just one.
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2000ssm6
Stihl User
That actually is the question, if not the most important, the 2nd most important. How does it run? We have already heard from a well known Stihl tech, that if Brad brought that cylinder in looking to get it replaced because it "looks bad" but doesn't know how it runs, he doesn't have much of a foot to stand on. So what should have been done was put the saw back together, run it, I'll bet all the money I have it will run good, then take the saw as a whole to his dealer and lie saying this saw doesn't run good. Brad can mention that since he works on saws, that after taking off the muffler to check for p&c scoring, he noticed some "bad looking" casting and that "MAY" be the problem. Now that this was not done and it will never be proven the saw runs good, Stihl doesn't have to do nothing. However, I hope he gets another but you won't see Stihl stopping production on their cylinders just because they "look bad". It will HAVE to raise a performance, realiabilty or longetivity issue to stop millions of cylinders being made. Ya'll have blown this all to hell, insane it's Stihl going.....
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Erick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Let's find out.
(Just for the sake of breaking a thousand.)
I recently bought a new piston and cylinder kit for my 084, and was a bit surprised and disappointed with the quality of the new piston.
The old piston is 116 grams, the new one is 124.
Overall the new piston seems to be a bit beefier but the quality is horrible.
I plan on doing some modifications to this piston so it’s not a huge deal for me, it just means I have some extra work to do.
If I had bought this as a straight drop in I would have been pissed, as it is I’m not real happy about having to do someone else’s job for them. Seems like quality is slipping everywhere now-a-days.
That actually is the question, if not the most important, the 2nd most important. How does it run? We have already heard from a well known Stihl tech, that if Brad brought that cylinder in looking to get it replaced because it "looks bad" but doesn't know how it runs, he doesn't have much of a foot to stand on. So what should have been done was put the saw back together, run it, I'll bet all the money I have it will run good, then take the saw as a whole to his dealer and lie saying this saw doesn't run good. Brad can mention that since he works on saws, that after taking off the muffler to check for p&c scoring, he noticed some "bad looking" casting and that "MAY" be the problem. Now that this was not done and it will never be proven the saw runs good, Stihl doesn't have to do nothing. However, I hope he gets another but you won't see Stihl stopping production on their cylinders just because they "look bad". It will HAVE to raise a performance, realiabilty or longetivity issue to stop millions of cylinders being made. Ya'll have blown this all to hell, insane it's Stihl going.....
I can only hope you don't speak for Stihl, especially Stihl Manufacturing and QA. That much porosity should not be acceptable reguardless of "if it runs" or not. There are many other issues that porosity can point to and effect in both the service life of a casting and the accuracy of the down stream manufacturing processes that in turn effect service life. So....maybe I should ask you, a "Technician" with tons of experience..is this the norm or the exception??
Let's find out.
(Just for the sake of breaking a thousand.)
I recently bought a new piston and cylinder kit for my 084, and was a bit surprised and disappointed with the quality of the new piston.
The old piston is 116 grams, the new one is 124.
Overall the new piston seems to be a bit beefier but the quality is horrible.
I plan on doing some modifications to this piston so it’s not a huge deal for me, it just means I have some extra work to do.
If I had bought this as a straight drop in I would have been pissed, as it is I’m not real happy about having to do someone else’s job for them. Seems like quality is slipping everywhere now-a-days.
Cast vs. Forged? Extra weight vs. origional can effect the vibration of that particular saw.
