EPA targets families that generate heat off the grid using traditional wood-burning s
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anything dealing with the "EPA" is political!! and potentialy fatel...........
Biker Dude
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not sure what you mean by "eventually" but it took me all of 10 seconds to find this 51 page EPA report on wood stove emissions. It seems like a pretty complete list to me.
Wood Stove Emissions: Particle Size and Chemical Composition
CTYank said:
Again, I'm not sure what conclusion you think I jumped to from parroting something I heard, nor how you even know what I have or haven't heard. I made a statement and asked a question.
CTYank said:
I live downwind from a turkey farm so I'm pretty sure a charcoal kiln would be a welcome improvement.
I will say that the headline is sensational but would we be discussing this if it were not? In case you haven't noticed, journalism is sensational by nature so this headline goes with the territory. No, the EPA is not going to come to my house and confiscate my ancient Taylor T-450 but the EPA's position is widely used by local govt. to enact anti-wood burning statutes. The EPA is helping local govt. target families who burn wood.
EPA stove regulations unfairly impact the poor who are incapable of building their own stoves and unable to afford an expensive EPA stove. These poor shivering families are forced to buy expensive fossil fuels to heat their homes making them unable to even save up money for an EPA wood stove. In some cases they have to choose between buying food and buying propane because cheap wood heat is denied to them. So, in regulating wood stove emissions the EPA is actually decreasing the poor families ability to survive and at the same time increasing the use of fossil fuels.
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fdoberman
ArboristSite Operative
1, I was in the neighborhood first, and I didn't invite any citiot to build here. They can wave as they move out.
2, I ain't stupid enough to waste energy running around in funny clothes. If I have excess energy to burn I'll do something productive.
3, EPA can come visit me right after they enforce their open burning regulations on California and Arizona. Those clowns send particles into the air way above EPA limitations.
Booshcat
ArboristSite Operative
They actually had the methane from livestock farts figured into the cap and trade bill.
They were going to charge dairy farmers about $20 per cow per year....
greendohn
firewood hack
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My cousin heated with an old "Ashley". Spent many a nite wakin' up to feed it so we'd have heat in the morning. Couple years ago he bought a new "efficient" burner with the "converters" in the top..Pretty nice..claims he's cut wood consumption by at least 1/3.. All I know is that he can load 'er up at bed time and it still has a mountain of solid coals in the morning..When it's at "cruisin' speed", them "converters" in the top look like an L.P. burner...what's not to like?? I had fired an old "Ember-Hearth" for years..a hungry pig to say the least..I remodeled this ol' dump and moved the wood stove completely out. Installed a Wood Master OWB, back in 2007..I LOVE IT !! But do worry about the rumors of it being "VERBOTEN" due to the smoke ...I'd like to think society as a whole will leave me be and let me heat my home independent of the thieves in the petroleum industry...each to their own...
I bought a Fisher insert at a yardsale for $80.
I have a neighbor about 100yds away. She recently complained about the smoke. She asked if I was burning green wood again. Suddenly she is a wood expert. There is not a stick of green wood in my racks. This is a lady who has 2 Peacocks, chickens and 4 dogs. She is always in her yard talking/cussing at her dogs at levels that can be heard by my children and anyone else within a square mile. I cant go outside without her mouth or animals polluting my ears, but god forbid a lil smoke violate her airspace.
I have a neighbor about 100yds away. She recently complained about the smoke. She asked if I was burning green wood again. Suddenly she is a wood expert. There is not a stick of green wood in my racks. This is a lady who has 2 Peacocks, chickens and 4 dogs. She is always in her yard talking/cussing at her dogs at levels that can be heard by my children and anyone else within a square mile. I cant go outside without her mouth or animals polluting my ears, but god forbid a lil smoke violate her airspace.
agree totally!!! but theres a problem..there are stove co's..that you wonder,,if they arent in bed with the epa,,so you have to support the buying of a stove from them...as only THEY are qualified!!!!
be nice to send allll the epa jerks there,,PERMANENTLY!!!!
aint hard to figure,,who loves the epa,,and other leftist clowns,,is it???
awwwwwwwwwww. wahhhhhh for you.
Hell is they had half of the hot air your blowing they wouldn't even need a heater!
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there is no hell to you,,so stop using the word..
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there is no hell to you,,so stop using the word..
yep,,that will make some out west complain.......
and like the rest of their leftist supporters...
First of all, where does this ignorant idea that pre-EPA stoves were inefficient come from? If the operator understands the principles involved, uses seasoned wood, installs a flue damper and adjusts it correctly, a (so-called) “smokehauser” burns highly efficient, with little or no smoke. Yesterday morning I filled my “old smokehauser” with oak at 4:00 AM atop a good bed of coals, got it burning good, closed the door and set the flue damper. When I left for work there was only a tiny bit of white smoke/steam coming from the chimney. The temperature never went above freezing yesterday and when I got home at 5:30 PM (13½ hours after loading it) the house was 76-degrees and there was a solid bed of coals in the “old smokehauser” still making heat! I asked the wife if she had reloaded during the day… Her answer… “Good lord, NO! It’s been like an oven in here all day! And by the way, I haven’t cleaned the old brick chimney in 18 years, but I check it often and never find anything more than a thin coating of soot. That’s pretty damn clean and efficient in my book!
Second, the EPA regulations have nothing to with efficiency… never did, never will. It’s all about the (so-called)emissions… C’mon, your brand new 4-cylinder, EPA compliant car pumps more dangerous crap into the air than any “old smokehauser” ever will… and if’n you’re burning an ethanol blend, it’s even worse. This whole “EPA wood-burning appliance” thing is driven by special interest groups, bleeding-heart tree-huggers and such. Don’t even try to argue with me on this because you have absolutely no chance of swaying my opinion… I don’t “buy into” any BS from the EPA or any other group, I do my own research and comparisons.
Third, it doesn’t matter what you believe about the EPA. You can argue all you want about the “good” or the “bad” they do… it still doesn’t matter. The Federal Government does not have the Constitutional authority to “regulate” wood-burning appliance standards (plus a ton more crap) beyond that of safety, and even that’s limited. The “General Welfare” and “Interstate Commerce” clauses of the constitution have been prostituted beyond common sense… And it’s high time citizens of this country wake up to that fact. There isn’t anything preventing a local or state government from setting standards, or even the outright banning… But the Feds have no authority, and that’s a simple fact.
The EPA, and most every other “regulatory” federal agency should be abolished (such as the Department of Energy). It is the job of congress to “regulate interstate commerce” and “provide for the general welfare” through the passage of clear-cut law… The lazy bums have no authority to create a “regulatory” agency and pass that job off on them, wasting huge sums of tax-payer dollars. But that would mean the lazy bums would actually have to work, actually have to learn how the real world works, and then they’d have to actually agree on something… which explains why we have these BS “regulatory” agency’s… doesn’t it? Those defending the EPA, or any of its policies, are like a group of sheep being led by wolves.
Second, the EPA regulations have nothing to with efficiency… never did, never will. It’s all about the (so-called)emissions… C’mon, your brand new 4-cylinder, EPA compliant car pumps more dangerous crap into the air than any “old smokehauser” ever will… and if’n you’re burning an ethanol blend, it’s even worse. This whole “EPA wood-burning appliance” thing is driven by special interest groups, bleeding-heart tree-huggers and such. Don’t even try to argue with me on this because you have absolutely no chance of swaying my opinion… I don’t “buy into” any BS from the EPA or any other group, I do my own research and comparisons.
Third, it doesn’t matter what you believe about the EPA. You can argue all you want about the “good” or the “bad” they do… it still doesn’t matter. The Federal Government does not have the Constitutional authority to “regulate” wood-burning appliance standards (plus a ton more crap) beyond that of safety, and even that’s limited. The “General Welfare” and “Interstate Commerce” clauses of the constitution have been prostituted beyond common sense… And it’s high time citizens of this country wake up to that fact. There isn’t anything preventing a local or state government from setting standards, or even the outright banning… But the Feds have no authority, and that’s a simple fact.
The EPA, and most every other “regulatory” federal agency should be abolished (such as the Department of Energy). It is the job of congress to “regulate interstate commerce” and “provide for the general welfare” through the passage of clear-cut law… The lazy bums have no authority to create a “regulatory” agency and pass that job off on them, wasting huge sums of tax-payer dollars. But that would mean the lazy bums would actually have to work, actually have to learn how the real world works, and then they’d have to actually agree on something… which explains why we have these BS “regulatory” agency’s… doesn’t it? Those defending the EPA, or any of its policies, are like a group of sheep being led by wolves.
What! Didn't you know the turkey farm was there when you moved? Personal responsibility and all that?
As far as the off grid poor shivering families go, they are most likely refugees from the city, who are afeared of the "gubbmint" spend big bucks on ammo, maybe collect disability from the gubbmint and are growing an illegal herb, or have a little chemical operation going. If they are into herb growing, they are doing just fine in a cash economy of their own.
See, I can stereotype too!
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I really hate these kinds of threads and should never have opened it - I certainly knew better. So many seem to get caught in the good vs. evil, us vs. them binary thinking trap, spurred on by manipulative public figures who's only agenda is to boost their own power and wealth. The whole liberal vs. conservative, D vs. R thing is such a charade, designed to keep everyone fighting amongst themselves so we don't notice that there's not a shred of difference between the two and both groups are stealing us blind. People are angry and upset, but do not see the underlying causes so they just blame the 'bad guys". There is so much really serious stuff coming down the pike at us that will render all these arguments meaningless, and all the assumptions of people on either side will be proved to be wrong. The clowns in our gubbermint are not in charge, they've lost control and are merely taking everything they can get before TSHTF. What will new EPA stove regs mean in the face of vast populations of homeless, unemployed, destitute people? Does it matter if the insurance company won't write your policy when you cannot pay your mortgage, and oh-by-the-way they just went bankrupt due to all the unpayable debt they took on guaranteeing worthless mortgages that still have not been accounted for?
There is a good group of people here who have more in common than they do in opposition, and good knowledge and skills of the kind that will be useful in the future that awaits us. It's a shame to see folks get whipped up and go off on people they should be working with.
There is a good group of people here who have more in common than they do in opposition, and good knowledge and skills of the kind that will be useful in the future that awaits us. It's a shame to see folks get whipped up and go off on people they should be working with.
Locust Cutter
Sawing for Sanity
Amen. I will do as I see fit, while trying not to infringe on anyone else. I will offend plenty by virtue of my existence, substance, independence and determination. We will see what happens if the bottom truly drops out and we all have to fen for ourselves. I have a feeling that most on this site will be leaps ahead of others.
WVwoodsman
Addicted to ArboristSite
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