Taking A Close Look At A Meteor Top End KIt For The 372XP

[Mastermind]

any clue when you'll have these kits available randy?, i've got a 372 i'd like to freshen up

They are availible now. I don't sell them straight off the shelf though. In the blueprinted kit I remove the casting flash, set the squish, match the lowers, and clean up the exhaust before they go out the door.

I can also set them up at any level you want, ported or with additional compression.

PM me for pricing.

 

[Mastermind]

I've made it pretty clear that I'm not a fan of aftermarket top end kit so when I was contacted about doing a review on one I had my doubts to say the least. I really like Meteor Pistons so the fact that this kit was a Meteor brand caused me to take a look.

The kit for the 372XP comes with a 371 single ring piston so we know someone is listening
to us "chainsaw gearheads".

The transfer inlet walls aren't as thin as an OEM cylinder but that's not a deal breaker.....and I'm looking hard to find one.

The exhaust outlet isn't as large or as slick as factory. Much of the issue here is casting flash that will clean up very easily.

The squish measures .035 without a base gasket, port timing measured ATDC......

EX 103°
TR 125°
IN 74°

Here's an update on this saw. We ran a dozen or so tanks of fuel through it without a hiccup.

I needed a bottom end to set up a few cylinders on so I tore it down.......I couldn't handle putting the top end on stock again so......

This saw is a test bed for these cylinders so lets see how it works ported.

I cut .075 out of the squish area and .065 from the base. The timing numbers after porting are....


Compression: 187PSI
Squish: .024
Ex: 96°
Transfers: 122° - 118° staggered
In: 82°

Pics......

Video tomorrow.....if the rain moves out.

 

[wigglesworth]

 

[Mastermind]

Do you see it???????? Do you.....really??????

 

[blsnelling]

Here's an update on this saw. We ran a dozen or so tanks of fuel through it without a hiccup.

I needed a bottom end to set up a few cylinders on so I tore it down.......I couldn't handle putting the top end on stock again so......

This saw is a test bed for these cylinders so lets see how it works ported.

I cut .075 out of the squish area and .065 from the base. The timing numbers after porting are....


Compression: 187PSI
Squish: .024
Ex: 96°
Transfers: 122° - 118° staggered
In: 82°

That jug looks real nice now that you've massaged it

 

[Mastermind]

That jug looks real nice now that you've massaged it

I used numbers that are a little more radical than I would normally use......cut more from the squish area too. If these kits are gonna be sold ported.....let's see how they respond to it.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

I used numbers that are a little more radical than I would normally use......cut more from the squish area too. If these kits are gonna be sold ported.....let's see how they respond to it.

.....You dont always have to hog out the cylinder to make a hell of a good runner.....

What's a man to believe from you Tennessee guys?......Hahahahahahahaha!

 

[Trx250r180]

Do you know if they are doing jugs for stihls ?

 

[watsonr]

Stihl jugs currently available are the 034/036/360 in 48mm, 046/460, 650/066/660. I'm working on the 044/440 as well.

 

[MCW]

I notice the Meteor cylinder has "Italy" cast into the cylinder. I assuming that means its cast and plated in Italy now, is that correct? Or is it still cast in China and plated in Italy...?

Put it this way, I've seen exactly the same castings on jugs from imported Chinese knock off 365's. In saying that though they are some of the nicest cylinders I've seen, regardless of whether they really are Italian or not (see images below)...

OIC


Wiggs ended up with a failed Meteor kit as well if I remember right. It was an 046 unit that had a poor bevel on the exhaust port......killed the rings within a tank or two.

I'll be going over any of these that I sell closely looking for defects. Believe that.

Not trying to hijack Randy but thought I'd just add a few things to your thread with the experiences I've had with some of the aftermarket kits I've imported. Consistent quality is the key. If the Meteor kits have been anywhere near Asia then you can never let your guard down (which I'm sure you won't )

Been there with other kits too. Checking every kit for defects is a wise move. After what I've seen importing my own directly I can't believe businesses can send out kits without checking each one - with a few exceptions the recall rate would be horrendous. Then again most buyers probably wouldn't know or care unless the saw actually stops. The AS crowd is a bit harder to please Also good stuff on offering them with squish band mods etc. Poor compression and high squish are constant problems. The kits certainly have potential though and some of the kits I've sold are now in the Australian chainsaw racing ring and performing well. Also being cheaper than OEM you can then afford to play around a bit with porting etc to see what does and doesn't work.
The only kits that I currently have 100% confidence in are the MS660 BB and 372XP BB kits (52mm). They are beautifully finished and none of my current supplier's kits have had one single fault. Also remember to change the rings if in doubt as I've seen a 15psi increase in compression just swapping to Cabers. Luckily most of the kits I've had failures with have been on test saws or given to people to test if I haven't had that model saw.

This was a 52mm 372XP BB kit that Will Parris tested. Hooked a ring. I have also had two returns on MS460 BB kits with the same issue...

Same thing happened on one of my own test saws dammit...

(interestingly I replaced the piston, swapped to Cabers, didn't change anything else, and this top end is still running - supplied rings on aftermarket top ends are a BIG risk and very inconsistent).

I swapped suppliers after this and haven't had a problem since. The first lot of kits I got also had issues with the Nikasil plating coming off with only low hours.

Not surprising when you see how some of the bevelling was done out of the box. Blind Chinaman spec...

Dodgey bore...

This is one of the 65cc cylinders marked "B&B Italy" off of a Chinese 365 clone. Very nice quality...

I don't really see that happening at this point, considering the new EPA rules?

Why are the 54mm kits on the hit list Niko?

 

[Trx250r180]

Transfers: 122° - 118° staggered


question for randy ,why the staggered #s on the transfers ? isnt stihl doing that staggered thing too ?

 

[blsnelling]

Checking every kit for defects is a wise move. After what I've seen importing my own directly I can't believe businesses can send out kits without checking each one - with a few exceptions the recall rate would be horrendous.

Right there is key, in my mind.

 

[SawTroll]

....

Why are the 54mm kits on the hit list Niko?

EPA.

I understand any BB kit for saw models introduced 1995 or later ("coincidentially" includes the 371/372 and the 046/460) are on EPA's hit-list in the USA. When that market is gone, there may not be enough market left for those kits, at least not for introducing new ones?

I can not document this, so it is at best second-hand info so far, and may not be 100% accurate....

 

[Mastermind]

What's a man to believe from you Tennessee guys?......Hahahahahahahaha!

Well.........nothing really.

Transfers: 122° - 118° staggered


question for randy ,why the staggered #s on the transfers ? isnt stihl doing that staggered thing too ?

The thinking is it gives a broader torque curve......

 

[A.E. Metal Werx]

To add to Randy's comment about the staggered ports, think about it like a 4 barrel carb or two stages of injectors. Instead of all the fuel/air at once its more progressive. Please correct me if I'm wrong randy, that's just the way I see/understand it.

 

[Trx250r180]

Well.........nothing really.



The thinking is it gives a broader torque curve......

so all this likeing of pie has rubbed off on your transfer ports ,pie shaped transfers are gonna be the new thing to come

 

[MCW]

EPA.

I understand any BB kit for saw models introduced 1995 or later ("coincidentially" includes the 371/372 and the 046/460) are on EPA's hit-list in the USA. When that market is gone, there may not be enough market left for those kits, at least not for introducing new ones?

I can not document this, so it is at best second-hand info so far, and may not be 100% accurate....

I'm aware it's the EPA NIko but why is a BB kit less environmentally friendly than a standard kit? That's the part I don't understand.
If so my thoughts would be that the major saw manufacturers have been feeding the EPA bullsh*t...

 

[MCW]

Right there is key, in my mind.

Another key is having a good relationship with the the supplier. In fact in my case I believe a 3rd party supplier is the way to go. If you can convince them that THEY will lose money by supplying bad kits then they actually do some of the QC for you as they put pressure on the manufacturers to only supply good kits or they won't get paid.
When I started importing these kits I had a "not up to scratch" rate of about 25% with maybe 10% of these completely unuseable.
Now I'm back to about 5% with all kits being useable however poor squish and lower than ideal compression still seems to be a constant issue. Any of the poorer quality kits get sold at a discounted rate as long as there is nothing terminal.
I don't sell a heap of kits anymore and actually pulled them off of eBay due to tax reasons but do intend to crank that side of the business up again after changing accountants and finding out I can pump more out via the chainsaw side of things

 

[wyk]

I'm aware it's the EPA NIko but why is a BB kit less environmentally friendly than a standard kit? That's the part I don't understand.
If so my thoughts would be that the major saw manufacturers have been feeding the EPA bullsh*t...

The EPA can regulate anything that has anything to do with emissions or pollutants. They can also regulate processes that can produce run-off or chemicals(like logging) etc. However, the EPA itself doesn't often go up against the aftermarket. During the Bush years the EPA was relatively toothless. We may be seeing a change here shortly. The EPA tends to pass legislation/laws and sit back. They don't often chase unless pushed for whatever reason.

Even so, since the aftermarket doesn't produce a full-fledged operating engine, it is sort of difficult to institute a test method for the emissions of such parts like they do for cats and scrubbers. Technically, even if the EPA outlawed installation of aftermarket parts on chainsaw, unless the feds or CARB made a new law, it still would be legal to manufacture the part - just not legal to install it.

 

[blsnelling]

Another key is having a good relationship with the the supplier. In fact in my case I believe a 3rd party supplier is the way to go. If you can convince them that THEY will lose money by supplying bad kits then they actually do some of the QC for you as they put pressure on the manufacturers to only supply good kits or they won't get paid.
When I started importing these kits I had a "not up to scratch" rate of about 25% with maybe 10% of these completely unuseable.
Now I'm back to about 5% with all kits being useable however poor squish and lower than ideal compression still seems to be a constant issue. Any of the poorer quality kits get sold at a discounted rate as long as there is nothing terminal.
I don't sell a heap of kits anymore and actually pulled them off of eBay due to tax reasons but do intend to crank that side of the business up again after changing accountants and finding out I can pump more out via the chainsaw side of things

I like your business model. Going from 25% to 5% is a phenominal improvement