when is a BIG saw (100cc) worthwile

[2dogs]

CATDIESEL sent me a PM requesting that I delete his posts. I declined. I have neither the time nor the inclination to wade back through 9 pages of this crap just to gut and rearrange the thread.

CATDIESEL has withdrawn from the thread and promised no more posts. In that spirit, please refrain from any further comments or attacks directed toward him.

Let's get back to what this thread is about.

Oh, OK. But I like fighting with the other kids in the sandbox. It's what us girls do for fun.

 

[Mastermind]

The other day one of the "welders" who works for me told me that a spark burned his arm. I laughed and walked away. I don't understand people's sacklessness.

-phillip

Sacklessness... I learned a new word today.

Me three.....

Carry on.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Goodnight all, I love living in the land of giants.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Yes I love cutting, and doing tree work and getting in big wood. I also love to just take pictures of, and watch and look for big trees for hours. I dream of them when my eyes close. Redwoods are part of me, and in my blood.

 

[Jon1212]

Yes I love cutting, and doing tree work and getting in big wood. I also love to just take pictures of, and watch and look for big trees for hours. I dream of them when my eyes close. Redwoods are part of me, and in my blood.

Dang, Norm. That's pretty close to poetry right there.

 

[Jon1212]

Me three.....

Carry on.

Hey Randy, check muh signature.

Me four.

 

[Justsaws]

I did. It seems between no picture, and me not having had coffee yesterday, I mistook rings for a jug. No idea how I managed that.... Maybe I will keep my eye out for an old stihl. The lack of parts is scaring me off a bit. I can figure out how to fix almost anything saw related, but not without parts..

Keep looking and get out and talk to some folks, never know what you'll find. Places like the site sponsors at the top of the page and the large online auction sites can be a fairly good indicator of what parts are availible for the older saws and a give a rough estimate of what it will cost and maybe even how long it will take to fix the saw after a bad day.

For myself I prefer to buy multiple complete basket cases for the price of 1 ready to use powerhead and build one up. That way I know what it is, and I already have the parts pile started for the next one. Usually at least a 3:1 ratio with a new seal kit and many times cheaper than the ready to use power head.

 

[madhatte]

Can't believe the best and most practical use for a long bar hasn't been mentioned at all yet... you don't have to bend over as much! I generally run 28"-32" bars whenever practical because that's about the right length for the bar tip to touch the ground if I let it tip, based on how long my legs are. This has a bunch of bonus applications including: 1) staying out of the way of spring poles when you cut 'em loose 2) flipping rounds out of the way using the bar as a shovel 3) reaching down into the hole to buck a length free from above rather than being in the path of the thing when it comes loose 4) limbing by walking on the top of the log without bending over much 5) staying back a bit cutting snags so you can see the top better, and run faster 6) staying back a bit cutting leaners so there's a better chance of escape from a barberchair (especially important in storm-damaged alders). Naw, you don't necessarily need 100cc for everything -- I do a lot of cutting with a ported 036 sporting a 28" -- but the trade-off in power for the weight is very often worth it, even for me, a mere forester who mostly clears blowdowns from roads. A tiny saw and a tiny bar has its place -- tight spaces, up in trees, super-limby trees -- but they're not a panacea. There's more than one tool in the box.

 

[roostersgt]

I have to admit, I have never used a saw bigger than a MS440 w/32" bar, but that was perfect for the 6' diameter cedar I had to buck up. Wished I'd had a MS660 with a bigger bar, but the truth is that's the biggest trunk, by far, I've encountered. Most of our woods are less than 24" "wild" soft wood (pine), or less than 16" yard tree. Would sure love to have a minty MS660, or MS088 just to play, but can't seem to justify the cost. I know exactly what others have stated. i know "free" forest service wood is available closest to the road and available to those able to gather it, but that doesn't apply to most of us. Most of the available Forrest service available to us is either very large, or very inaccessible, and far from the roadway. Using a 32 " bar on my MS440, I can buck up most available "soft" wood for transport.

 

[Eccentric]

Big McCulloch and some big Husqvarnas at work.

[video=youtube;n2tvx4u-KPQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2tvx4u-KPQ&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Big McCulloch and some big Husqvarnas at work.

 

[heimannm]

Now that we are back on track, a serious question for those that know...

What is it about the big firs and redwoods that makes the barberchair so problematic. I understand what happens, I just don't understand why that happens and exactly how the long bar reduces the characteristic splitting.

Sorry if this has been dealt with before, I have a lot to learn.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[timberland ts]

I enjoy the pictures and reading the things that people who know more than me post. If your not willing to learn something go somewhere else. Im just a treetard what do i know.

 

[Eccentric]

A hack's guess....

Now that we are back on track, a serious question for those that know...

What is it about the big firs and redwoods that makes the barberchair so problematic. I understand what happens, I just don't understand why that happens and exactly how the long bar reduces the characteristic splitting.

Sorry if this has been dealt with before, I have a lot to learn.

Thanks,

Mark

Those big tall trees have a LOT of mass up in the stem, and can put enough tension on the wood behind the face cut (to the point of 'chairing) in a hurry (especially if they're a leaner). Having a long enough bar means not having to take more time by making your back cut from both sides of the tree (and/or having to block out sections to get your powerhead in far enough to reach what you need to cut with a shorter bar). You can also bore all the way through (from one side if your bar is long enough) behind the hinge and cut back out if you chose to that. That's my guess....

 

[rwoods]

Now that we are back on track, a serious question for those that know...

What is it about the big firs and redwoods that makes the barberchair so problematic. I understand what happens, I just don't understand why that happens and exactly how the long bar reduces the characteristic splitting.

Sorry if this has been dealt with before, I have a lot to learn.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark, while your question is not addressed to me nor can I definitively answer it (so I won't) and I bet you already know more than me, I will nevertheless take this as an opportunity to state why this Southern boy uses long bars relative to barberchairing. I'll quote Madhatte: "6) staying back a bit cutting leaners so there's a better chance of escape from a barberchair" and I'll add that it also minimizes the time you spend behind the tree. As to the cause of barber chairing among the species you asked, I don't know but in my neck of the woods the primary culprit is straight grained oaks. Some tall pines in the South also have similar grains and BC characteristics. Also I opt for a more powerful saw as an additional protection - being too slow in the cut can contribute to or cause a barber chair as the tensions increase quicker than you are releasing them. Ron

 

[roberte]

Those big tall trees have a LOT of mass up in the stem, and can put enough tension on the wood behind the face cut (to the point of 'chairing) in a hurry (especially if they're a leaner). Having a long enough bar means not having to take more time by making your back cut from both sides of the tree (and/or having to block out sections to get your powerhead in far enough to reach what you need to cut with a shorter bar). You can also bore all the way through (from one side if your bar is long enough) behind the hinge and cut back out if you chose to that. That's my guess....

I can 2nd alot of this. And while I am a semi educated hack, I cant answer effectively these questions either. I can only go back to what I learned from the old timer that showed me, and that was only "if its doing this you can do that" All the rest was and is OTJT. Physics is what it is, opener up, put your wedge here, cut from this side, etc...

 

[watsonr]

Mark, while your question is not addressed to me nor can I definitively answer it (so I won't) and I bet you already know more than me, I will nevertheless take this as an opportunity to state why this Southern boy uses long bars relative to barberchairing. I'll quote Madhatte: "6) staying back a bit cutting leaners so there's a better chance of escape from a barberchair" and I'll add that it also minimizes the time you spend behind the tree. As to the cause of barber chairing among the species you asked, I don't know but in my neck of the woods the primary culprit is straight grained oaks. Some tall pines in the South also have similar grains and BC characteristics. Also I opt for a more powerful saw as an additional protection - being too slow in the cut can contribute to or cause a barber chair as the tensions increase quicker than you are releasing them. Ron

My father never stood near the back of the tree and had a 28" minimum on always. .. PNW timber cutter he was. And if you even walked past the back side of the tree when he was cutting, he'd stop and chew your butt. Said it was safer on the side, the further the better. I think it also helped him tell when the tree started to go, he'd stay right with it even after you could see it start to go over. Only ever hurt once that I can remember, tree kicked up after it hit the ground and caught him in the shin. He would stay near the tree as it went over and watch which way it went and just step to the side if needed. He lost a very close friend because he turned his back on the tree.

 

[IEL]

I think I have found my big saw CAD fix for now. My dad has offered to give me his 89cc pioneer 450 if I can find the fuel pump gasket. The home made one it has now sort of works, but it has to have a proper and perfectly functioning one for it to be mine. I hope someone can spare one.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Those big tall trees have a LOT of mass up in the stem, and can put enough tension on the wood behind the face cut (to the point of 'chairing) in a hurry (especially if they're a leaner). Having a long enough bar means not having to take more time by making your back cut from both sides of the tree (and/or having to block out sections to get your powerhead in far enough to reach what you need to cut with a shorter bar). You can also bore all the way through (from one side if your bar is long enough) behind the hinge and cut back out if you chose to that. That's my guess....

Very good point's my friend good stuff! Some of the main reasons I have seen barber chair around my neck of the woods. The cutter stops thinking he cut enough wood or hesitates in the cut. Or to small of a saw, and ends up chasing holding wood, and saw can't cut it up fast enough. Also the longer bar makes nice true, and square corners. I also agre and run no smaller then madhatte says, the 28-32 perfect for me as well, and my back is not sore from bending over either, like he mentioned. And Jon thanks for the compliment my friend.

 

[madhatte]

I also agre and run no smaller then madhatte says, the 28-32 perfect for me as well, and my back is not sore from bending over either, like he mentioned.

Gotta elaborate a bit; if you're bumping knots on a bushy spruce or something, you want a 16" bar or less, and a sharp chain. Faster the saw spools up, the faster you can move on to a job that doesn't suck ass.

 

[NORMZILLA44]

Lol! Had a few brushy bastards myself buddy. That's when a 044-372 is sweet! The limbing saws we call em here.