Top Down Vs Bottom Up Removals

[mr. holden wood]

I think I may have confused people on this one, so a couple of clarifications. I only do top down removals on single leader (excurrent) conifers. The idea is to climb all the way to the top of the tree, while only removing branches that may be in the way of your ascent. I find these are usually smaller branches that I can cut and throw far enough out from the tree that they don't get hung up. Once at the top, set a running bowline and throw the line out from the tree in the direction you want to drop the piece. Rappel from the line to where you want to make the top cut. At this point, you may want to remove a few branches to make room for your face and back cut. I like to make a shallow face cut in order to get the top to jump out away from the tree. From here I just repeat the process. I have only done a few removals this way so far, and would not do a top down removal unless the situation calls for it. I would also not rig and lower anything with this technique. That would obviously defeat the purpose of doing a top down removal since one of the objectives is to avoid having to lower branches. I hope this clarifies things. I just wanted to see if anyone else out there was doing this and maybe pick up some new ideas along the way.

More of a pain then its worth. If you try this on any tree over 40' the second or third piece breaks out all the branches on the way down. Then you have ahuge mess and a tree with all backweight. Plus the piece goes down the tree like a plinko chip, pretty sketchy.

 

[HuskStihl]

You guys actually climb into trees? Y'all are crazy ####ers!

 

[defensiblespace]

I can certainly see the skepticism over this topic. I reread the article from Arborist News about top down removals looking for some concrete numbers that I could throw out. There were no numbers to imply how much less vibration there is with the branches on the tree. The article does go into how the branches create a "mass damping" effect on the tree to greatly reduce the "harmonic wave" or vibration throughout the trunk. Just food for thought since bottom up is obviously the far more common method of removing trees, which the article did say is 16.7 percent faster than top downs. The article said that a study done back in the 80's proved that top downs are safer, but bottom ups are faster. I guess the bottom line is we all need to make a profit when everything is said and done with.

 

[jandh@amtelecom]

Yup!

I can certainly see the skepticism over this topic. I reread the article from Arborist News about top down removals looking for some concrete numbers that I could throw out. There were no numbers to imply how much less vibration there is with the branches on the tree. The article does go into how the branches create a "mass damping" effect on the tree to greatly reduce the "harmonic wave" or vibration throughout the trunk. Just food for thought since bottom up is obviously the far more common method of removing trees, which the article did say is 16.7 percent faster than top downs. The article said that a study done back in the 80's proved that top downs are safer, but bottom ups are faster. I guess the bottom line is we all need to make a profit when everything is said and done with.

I use the top down method on Conifers whenever I'm in a tight DZ. Works great, and Quick too!

 

[Pelorus]

I use the top down method on Conifers whenever I'm in a tight DZ. Works great, and Quick too!

Yeah, but you are doing it that way because it is a more efficient way to get the tree down, not because of vibration dampening, right? I doubt anyone would blow the whole top outta a grim tree if they were concerned about vibration making the stem fail.

 

[jandh@amtelecom]

True

Yeah, but you are doing it that way because it is a more efficient way to get the tree down, not because of vibration dampening, right? I doubt anyone would blow the whole top outta a grim tree if they were concerned about vibration making the stem fail.

Yeah, Usually not concerned about vibes, (besides the Wifeys)
I've got a huge hollow pine next week, I need to do this on. Not that tall (90ft), buy very wide and rotten at the base. guess I'll check out the vibrations on that one.

 

[beastmaster]

I use this method when there is something directly under one side of the tree but an open dz on the other. Easier than roping the half over the fence/shed/etc.

Ditto on that. It's not something I do a lot,but in some situations it'll get the job done safer and faster.

 

[slice'N'dice'M]

I've climbed and dismantled hordes of decrepit trees over the years, and vibration dampening seems like a crock to me. If the tree is severely grim, I use some ratchet straps to help maintain structural integrity, or "fishing pole" it using a couple of extra blocks. (Antal / "X" rigging rings in a spliced eye sling are light, strong, and cheaper than blocks). All I know is I'm gonna put that tree on the ground as safely and efficiently as possible, and trying to lower upper limbs through lower limbs causes drama and increased mental / physical stress.

and I quote : trying to lower upper limbs through lower limbs causes drama and increased mental / physical stress. !!!!!!! that's exactly what I was thinking, and would start er from the bottom like always......

 

[brentstrees]

Top Down

In our 23+ years of experience we typically will use a top down approach for the safety of our tree climbers. http://brents################/

 

[StrataTree]

Bottom uppers,
Is one of your tie ins a climbing rope? And if so do you "choke" the spar with it below your flipline or throw it over a higher limb, advancing as you go?
Or, climb to install a high tie in come back down and then work up?
Or, throwball a high TIP to start?
Conifers

Never mind...that question got annoyingly big.
I guess there are a hundred ways.to skin a cat.

 

[Adamgaspo]

I get the concept, just one major question, after air mailing the top into your dz. I'm Guessing you rappell down the tree to the branches you climbed past to then rig them out? Or do you drop whole pieces of tree with limbs attached? If its the latter your groundless must be hating life and you on those days!

 

[jandh@amtelecom]

Nope!

I get the concept, just one major question, after air mailing the top into your dz. I'm Guessing you rappell down the tree to the branches you climbed past to then rig them out? Or do you drop whole pieces of tree with limbs attached? If its the latter your groundless must be hating life and you on those days!

No, I start doing all branches on the way down and the trunk in sections, and I HELP the groundies when I'm down.

 

[beastmaster]

I recently did a ugly sugar pine. It twisted up through an oak tree. Was right up against the corner of the home next to an outside stairway. Wires coming to the house ran next to it with lots of the limbs growing out over the house, wires, and deck. This companys climber didn't feel comfortable doing it. I went there with 3 grounds men to help with all the rigging, lowing lines,tag lines, ect. I hadn't seen the tree tell I got there.
I broke out my big shot and shot a line up into a mess of a crown and SRTed up. I had a tight drop zone between some trees. I had them hook up a pulley and run a redirect to the truck. Put a narrow deep face cut in it. Had to clear a few limb so everything would clear and and while cutting the back cut had them pull the top at my nod. Top, branches and all(some of the branches were 20ft long)went sailing into space, clearing all obstacles by a good margin. Because the of the way the tree twisted I speed line the next section 90 degrees from the first. the steep speed line was used more to pull the piece a way from the deck some as it fell, branches and all. I was then able to rig rest the stick off the oak, by tieing the top of it to a rope running throu a pulley in the oak, and using two tag lines, directing it through a small window and safely to the ground. It was on the ground in 45 min. They figured it would take half a day. Of course I gleefully watched those lazy grounds men do all the saw work as I pack up my stuff and went to collect my check.

 

[StrataTree]

I recently did a ugly sugar pine. It twisted up through an oak tree. Was right up against the corner of the home next to an outside stairway. Wires coming to the house ran next to it with lots of the limbs growing out over the house, wires, and deck. This companys climber didn't feel comfortable doing it. I went there with 3 grounds men to help with all the rigging, lowing lines,tag lines, ect. I hadn't seen the tree tell I got there.
I broke out my big shot and shot a line up into a mess of a crown and SRTed up. I had a tight drop zone between some trees. I had them hook up a pulley and run a redirect to the truck. Put a narrow deep face cut in it. Had to clear a few limb so everything would clear and and while cutting the back cut had them pull the top at my nod. Top, branches and all(some of the branches were 20ft long)went sailing into space, clearing all obstacles by a good margin. Because the of the way the tree twisted I speed line the next section 90 degrees from the first. the steep speed line was used more to pull the piece a way from the deck some as it fell, branches and all. I was then able to rig rest the stick off the oak, by tieing the top of it to a rope running throu a pulley in the oak, and using two tag lines, directing it through a small window and safely to the ground. It was on the ground in 45 min. They figured it would take half a day. Of course I gleefully watched those lazy grounds men do all the saw work as I pack up my stuff and went to collect my check.

And now your home...11AM Mon. Morn. ...Nice, while the rest of us are humpin it till 4!

Only question is...did you go back to coffee or move on to beer?

I would of moved on....

 

[beastmaster]

And now your home...11AM Mon. Morn. ...Nice, while the rest of us are humpin it till 4!

Only question is...did you go back to coffee or move on to beer?

I would of moved on....

I like working at doing nothing when ever I can. I got a few jobs in the can for this week, so I'm home now goofing off. It's to hot to work if I don't have to or its not paying enough. I don't drink coffee or beer any more, but I can sure put a way the Dr. pepper and Horchata. Ive been working on a big texas watermelon while working in the yard today.