A Cheap Woodshed

[Hddnis]

Concrete is NOT waterproof.

Concrete is in fact a very large sponge and a cubic yard of dry cured concrete will absorb nearly fifteen gallons of water in as little as half an hour. That is an engineering standard, but I forget the reference section and number off the top of my head.

Early concrete dams failed because of water saturation of the concrete. Modern concrete dams use different treatments of the concrete to overcome this.

Concrete spalls in cold weather because absorbed water freezes and expands with enough force to fracture the concrete.

Concrete will transport moisture from the wet side to the dry side. Basements and slabs are almost always backed up by a vapor and water barrier in home construction and commercial buildings. Outbuildings and the like may not have a vapor barrier to save on cost.

Not trying to hijack, and other than living in the PNW where it is very wet and basement walls will seep water it isn't really useful information to slowp, but the facts needed to be pointed out.



Mr. HE

 

[Hooch91steven]

Shed

Old pool liner works great for covering your wood .Here you can get a waste product from the paper mills called Dryer felt that works graet for the sides of your shed comes white but will turn gray as time goes on.

 

[haveawoody]

If your looking for a real cheap way then the old boy scout trick of a rope between 2 trees and a few pegs in the ground to hold the sides in place.

1 big sheet of clear poly, 50 4" ardrox nails, 10 big rocks to keep the plastic from slipping of the nails and to hold it tight to the ground and two existing trees sounds like a cheap cover/kiln, just make sure to have the open end at the prevailing wind and wood will dry mighty quick and stay that way.
With your $50 budget you should still have enough left over for a 6 pack
Something like this but right to the ground and pinned in place.
<img src=http://images-cdn.lancasteronline.com/112662_640.jpg>

 

[slowp]

View attachment 307230
I got that hammock to take backpacking and then a foot problem ended that plan.

On the concrete thing--I have a large metal building and apparently no vapor barrier was put down under the concrete. After we have a cold for here snap, the water seeps up through the floor and it becomes quite slick, and nahsty.

I tried to store firewood in that and ended up growing mushrooms. I got the wood out before it was ruined.

 

[Miles86]

Howdy-

1" bamboo poles cut from out of control neighbors bamboo forest (free). (You have your local alder poles (free))

550 paracord to lash together poles 100 ft is ~ $10.00 550 Paracord in 100 ft lengths

plastic tarp wil be the roof $ depends on size you will need.

Draw design on napkin. napkin free from Burger King.

 

[JakeG]

Howdy-

1" bamboo poles cut from out of control neighbors bamboo forest (free). (You have your local alder poles (free))

550 paracord to lash together poles 100 ft is ~ $10.00 550 Paracord in 100 ft lengths

plastic tarp wil be the roof $ depends on size you will need.

Draw design on napkin. napkin free from Burger King.

That is.. IF you can sneak a napkin without having to buy a meal.

I like re-purposing things, so I'd keep my eyes open for everything when driving around in the pickup. You can probably do it for free if you look hard enough. :msp_thumbup:

 

[haveawoody]

Miles86,

Good use of resources
I think we could trade the Para cord for a roll of duck tape and attach things for 5$
Bet we could do it for under 1$ worth of wood screws.

At burger king ask one of the sales people for a pen to write your order down on the napkin you borrowed to make the cover plan and presto free pen
At the lumber yard they throw away miles of wood covers so I bet getting a roof cover could be done for nothing, and a little duck tape to join them to make whatever size you want.
Or we could simply ask for all the lathe wood bits that come between stacks and use them with a staple gun to make for bigger sheets.
$1 worth of staples should be tones.
While at the lumber yard getting materials might as well get a few of those free pallets for stacking wood inside it

I figure $2 would do it for everything, sure leaves lots of 6 packs for building it
And now all those braches that use to be thrown away because they were piddling things can now have a use as the hoops.

And I bet you thought you were tight LOL

 

[Whitespider]

…Concrete is NOT waterproof.
Concrete is in fact a very large sponge…
Concrete will transport moisture from the wet side to the dry side.
…basement walls will seep water…

On the concrete thing--I have a large metal building and apparently no vapor barrier was put down under the concrete. After we have a cold for here snap, the water seeps up through the floor and it becomes quite slick, and nahsty.

OK, concrete is in fact “waterproof”… but is not a vapor barrier.
Concrete is not exactly like a sponge either. Set a sponge half emerged in a bowl of water and it will pull water up into the non-immersed part. Concrete will not do that unless there is sufficient head pressure in the water source (which would be impossible with a post pillar like I suggested).

Concrete will not transport “liquid” water from the wet side to the dry side… but it will release water “vapor” horizontally (vertically only with sufficient head pressure) into the medium contacting the dry side. ‘Round here, in near every farmyard, sits a concrete livestock watering tank and the outside surface is not wet! Those tanks hold “liquid” water… yet no “liquid” water “seeps” through the outside surface.

Concrete basement walls and floor slabs will not “seep” liquid water (unless there is a crack or joint). When concrete basement walls and floor slabs get wet it’s due to what is called “sweating”… it is the moisture in the air condensing on the concrete surface because the temperature of the concrete surface is below the air’s dew-point. In the case of basement walls the concrete releases water “vapor” (not “liquid” water) into the basement significantly increasing relative humidity, thereby raising the dew-point until water begins condensing (from the air) onto the wall surface… “liquid” water is not seeping through the wall! Once “liquid” water condenses on the concrete surface the “transportation” of water “vapor” stops… because both surfaces (inner and outer) are equally wet. Even with a vapor barrier underneath a concrete floor it will still sweat!

Except under extreme conditions/circumstances would any of this apply to a concrete post pillar located in the out-of-doors (such as a pole shed).

Read it for yourselves… (excerpts from: Concrete Technology | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs): Concrete Sweating) | Portland Cement Association (PCA) )

Q: Why does concrete sweat and what can be done to stop it?

A: If warm moist air flows over a cool concrete slab, moisture can condense on the surface of the slab creating slippery, unsafe conditions. Sweating occurs when the temperature of the concrete surface is below the dewpoint temperature of the air. In one case, a large warehouse built without air-conditioning experienced problems each year in late spring and early summer when warm moist air entered the building over the cold concrete floor. Loading dock doors were opened early in the morning to let in cool, fresh air that was moisture-laden. Skid marks from forklift truck tires were visible in the moist, slippery conditions.

Another cause of sweating could be moisture from external sources migrating through the concrete slab. Upon reaching the surface, it evaporates causing a rise in the humidity of the air above the surface and subsequently the dewpoint. Once the air is saturated, moisture will begin to collect on the surface.

 

[zogger]

View attachment 307230
I got that hammock to take backpacking and then a foot problem ended that plan.

On the concrete thing--I have a large metal building and apparently no vapor barrier was put down under the concrete. After we have a cold for here snap, the water seeps up through the floor and it becomes quite slick, and nahsty.

I tried to store firewood in that and ended up growing mushrooms. I got the wood out before it was ruined.

They make epoxy paint just for going over concrete floors.

You could also add a large fan into that building design as well, perhaps an exhaust fan at the eaves or end, etc. Get air moving in and up and through the wood and out.

another wild card, kinda sorta. Spare metal building with a concrete floor..hmm..sounds like another scrounged up wood heater, turn that building into a kiln. Stack wood in there and fire the wiood heater up using scrap crap wood and bake it out once or twice a month.

I'd still do the epoxy paint floor or lay down plastic sheets and stack on that. On pallets. Air under the wood, no matter where it is, works much mo bettah.

 

[Whitespider]

zogger,
Epoxy paint will not stop a concrete floor from sweating in an outbuilding.
When the warm, moisture laden air comes in contact with the cooler floor surface, the moisture will still condense as liquid water on the floor... and a smooth epoxy finish will be even slipperier than bare concrete (ask me how I know). However, there are coating available with "grit" in them, and they will reduce the slipperiness of a wet floor.

 

[slowp]

The nearest Burger King is about 60 miles, same for a real lumber yard. I live in the sticks. There's a east-west pass that connects two medium sized towns at either end, and our community of 2 mini marts, small grocery, post office, tiny library, dentist, tiny little clinic, a small hardware store that seldom has what I want, three cafes, one fast food joint--non chain, a coffee hut, school, a mill, and a Forest Service office is merely a slow down to 35 mph while on the way somewhere else, unless you are here to go to the woods or recreating.
That's it.

 

[Miles86]

The nearest Burger King is about 60 miles, same for a real lumber yard. I live in the sticks. There's a east-west pass that connects two medium sized towns at either end, and our community of 2 mini marts, small grocery, post office, tiny library, dentist, tiny little clinic, a small hardware store that seldom has what I want, three cafes, one fast food joint--non chain, a coffee hut, school, a mill, and a Forest Service office is merely a slow down to 35 mph while on the way somewhere else, unless you are here to go to the woods or recreating.
That's it.

That sound great to me, hopefully I can sell my house by next year and clear out to my secret spot , I need to build a shed myself so this thread got me thinking...

 

[Whitespider]

I live in the sticks.

Yeah, so do I (although, maybe not quite as removed as you describe). Livin' in-the-sticks, you learn to do a lot of things for yourself... things that other people "call somebody" to handle. It's not that that I can't "call somebody", but you never know how long it will take for them to arrive, or how much the extra charges for rural service will be. And then, "they" rarely have with them what "they" need... so it's another day (or more) before the "thing" gets "handled".

So, I've not only learned to do those "things" for myself (heck, I pumped out my septic tank last weekend), I've learned to keep "stuff" on hand (like a few bags of RediMix, lots of hardware, plumbing and electrical supplies, small engine/OPE repair parts, dimensional lumber and plywood, shingles, fuel, various adhesives and chemicals, and of course that pile of highly valuable "stuff" other people call a junk pile). Nothing irritates me more than wasting a couple hours and gas because I need to drive into town for a 3-dollar "something"... when it happens I always buy extra so I don't never have to do it again. Over the years I've become nearly as well stocked as the local fleet and hardware stores (not quantity, but diversely)... the neighbors even stop here first before driving to town (I won't take payment, because then I wouldn't have it... I tell them to replace it next necessary trip into town). And then there's all the other "stuff" you need or all those parts and hardware are worthless... like the welder, power and hand tools, emergency generator, water and trash pumps, ladders, ropes, chains, cables, jacks and lifts, and-on-and-on-and-on-and...

Yeah, I wouldn't live anywhere except in-the-sticks, but if'n ya' wanna' be happy out here it does require an attitude adjustment... the only thing you can rely on 100% is yourself.

 

[zogger]

zogger,
Epoxy paint will not stop a concrete floor from sweating in an outbuilding.
When the warm, moisture laden air comes in contact with the cooler floor surface, the moisture will still condense as liquid water on the floor... and a smooth epoxy finish will be even slipperier than bare concrete (ask me how I know). However, there are coating available with "grit" in them, and they will reduce the slipperiness of a wet floor.

It does get real slippery. I helped work at a plant rental place off and on for years (side work from my exhibit/tradeshow work, related stuff), they had an outside greenhouse I built for them, then their more valuable and quite tropical large plants got kept inside under halides. The floor had that epoxy. A coating with grit sounds better.

 

[Guido Salvage]

This has turned into the typical AS thread response, off topic and Whitespider trying to prove he is the expert on all matters....

Building a shed is pretty basic, poles for support, joists to connect and stabilize them, rafters to support the roof and metal to cover it with.

Adler is not cedar or chestnut so it will not be long lasting, its life will be increased by eliminating contact with the ground and keeping it dry. Since your poles will be small and relatively weak you will need to space them more closely together. If your wood is a large enough diameter you could use adler and notch the backside for your joists and use lag or hex bolts to keep it together. If the saplings are straight use them as the rafters as well (you may need supports in the center as well. Secure the tin to the rafters and away you go.

Will be more difficult than using dimensional lumber but will give you experience in building.

 

[Hddnis]

OK, concrete is in fact “waterproof”… but is not a vapor barrier.
Concrete is not exactly like a sponge either. Set a sponge half emerged in a bowl of water and it will pull water up into the non-immersed part. Concrete will not do that unless there is sufficient head pressure in the water source (which would be impossible with a post pillar like I suggested).

Concrete will not transport “liquid” water from the wet side to the dry side… but it will release water “vapor” horizontally (vertically only with sufficient head pressure) into the medium contacting the dry side. ‘Round here, in near every farmyard, sits a concrete livestock watering tank and the outside surface is not wet! Those tanks hold “liquid” water… yet no “liquid” water “seeps” through the outside surface.

Concrete basement walls and floor slabs will not “seep” liquid water (unless there is a crack or joint). When concrete basement walls and floor slabs get wet it’s due to what is called “sweating”… it is the moisture in the air condensing on the concrete surface because the temperature of the concrete surface is below the air’s dew-point. In the case of basement walls the concrete releases water “vapor” (not “liquid” water) into the basement significantly increasing relative humidity, thereby raising the dew-point until water begins condensing (from the air) onto the wall surface… “liquid” water is not seeping through the wall! Once “liquid” water condenses on the concrete surface the “transportation” of water “vapor” stops… because both surfaces (inner and outer) are equally wet. Even with a vapor barrier underneath a concrete floor it will still sweat!

Except under extreme conditions/circumstances would any of this apply to a concrete post pillar located in the out-of-doors (such as a pole shed).

Read it for yourselves… (excerpts from: Concrete Technology | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs): Concrete Sweating) | Portland Cement Association (PCA) )

Your own link says "Another cause of sweating could be moisture from external sources migrating through the concrete slab. Upon reaching the surface, it evaporates causing a rise in the humidity of the air above the surface and subsequently the dewpoint. Once the air is saturated, moisture will begin to collect on the surface." Moisture migration and seeping concrete are very real. Concrete dams are designed with an allowable amount of seepage, both through the concrete which is treated to be waterproof, and through the foundations that the dam rests on.

I've included a few links specifically related to making concrete waterproof. Many of them mention the porous nature of concrete, the sponge structure and engineering solutions to these problems. Waterproofing concrete, from admixtures specified in engineering documents to membranes applied to existing concrete, is a multi-billion dollar a year industry. If concrete were as waterproof as you claim all of that business would not exist.

http://www.cipremier.com/e107_files/downloads/Papers/100/33/100033056.pdf

Waterproofing Admixtures For Concrete - Concrete Materials And Admixtures, Moisture Barriers, Institutional Projects, Concrete, Mix Design, Waterproofing - Concrete Construction

Waterproof Concrete

Krystol Internal Membrane | Crystalline Admixture

High Performance Admixtures

Using Concrete Waterproofing Admixture | DoItYourself.com

Admixtures are required by code in many areas and added as a matter of course in others. It is so common that people often attribute performance to concrete that it would not have without the admixtures or applied coatings, most of which are invisible to the naked eye.

Again, this is just to correct your blanket statements about concrete that are incorrect and has little to do with building a woodshed.:msp_tongue:



Mr. HE

 

[Hddnis]

Here is a kindling shed I had a young employee build for me. Other than paying his labor it cost me nothing as all the material is salvage. I think he had six hours in it start to finish. I told him to "...just get it done and here is material to use." We had a snowstorm coming the next day and I wanted to get more wood stacked under cover. It holds about five cords, maybe a little more.

Floor is pallets, six of them.
One wall is old fence boards.
Other two walls are plywood that was cut to an odd size for a custom concrete form.
Framing is mostly 2x3 studs that were used as shoring on another project.
1x4s were also leftovers from the custom concrete forms.
Roof is salvaged tin from an old porch roof that we replaced.

I have to keep it partly full or the wind will blow it away. Right now it holds kindling I made from cedar shingles that were torn off a roof being replaced. There is also some short chunks leftover from making firewood that fit in the cabin stove nicely. That old stove sitting there is going to get a refurb job and will go in a hunting cabin when it's done.

That shed is ugly as sin, not square in any direction, doesn't meet a single building code for anything, but has withstood winds over 80 mph and snow on the roof three feet deep. It keeps the kindling dry and lets enough air through to dry out green wood in one year. It has been up four years now and someday it will fall down or rot away, but for now I'm pretty happy with it, but I don't show it off to visitors.:msp_wink:



Mr. HE

 

[Whitespider]

This has turned into the typical AS thread response, off topic and Whitespider trying to prove he is the expert on all matters....

Trying?? Heck man, I am an expert on all matters :msp_w00t:
After all, this is the internet.



Oh, and your comment caused me to immediately think of your signature line.
You know??? This part... "small minds discuss people." :msp_thumbup:

 

[Jedc43]

My shed

Hello I made my shed from salvaged wood from a old horse fence.Probably spent around 60 bucks for some deck boards and pier blocks...oh ya and 30 bucks for some osb for the roof....Had some old shingles in the garage from previous owner.

 

[7sleeper]

A little late, but I make my woodshed's the elcheapo style. I use very large ... ah $"it I forgot what they are called in english :bang:, just look at the photo. I take four of them and have my "wood shed" with excellent ventilation. They are 2 metres long and a little over a metre wide. So I can get ~4 m2 inside. The roof get's a slanting so rain and snow can flow off. For the roof I have some recycled corrugated fiberglass roofing. Everything gets put on some old bricks to have enough ventilation from underneath and if I have enough time everything get's a coating with old engine oil to withstand the elements a little better.

View attachment 308509

Good luck!

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