KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
A video tape would certainly cut down on the investigation time.
"Nattering Nabobs of Negativism"
- Thread starter pdqdl
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I wonder who can handle a 40' pole pruner and extensions? With a Big Bite?
Interesting,,,would you like some tea? Cool.
Jeff
My record's 4 Jameson's, but it wasn't pretty, and I think I could have climbed up there and gnawed it off faster.
futbalfantic
ArboristSite Member
I do believe this thread took a turn for the worst when I open my mouth (fingers?). Jolly, I understand where you are coming from, honestly. That is why I am here to learn as much as can to see if it is some viable, worth while, and something I want to take on. Honestly there are many, MANY thing in my line of work that I have never seen and only read about in a book that I will have to treat. Many of which are life threatening, but of course not to me. (yes, I have a synical view on the world). And just to be clear I am not comparing the two professions that would be similar to comparing apples and lettuce. (I don't feel apples to oranges is close enough)
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
All you need to know (and need to know very, very well) what you are expected to know to do to keep the patient alive till he/she can receive definitive care in a hospital. Deviate from that scope of practice and face the consequences.
And yeah, I stayed in a Holliday Inn Express once too...
All right, ya passed the first test, ya came back, lol. If you are serious about this, step one is to read every post on AS. Just kidding, but not really. My point is the archives are a wealth of knowledge, and reading through old threads will answer questions you haven't even thought to ask. Step two is to get a short length of rope and start practicing the top ten knots 'til you can tie them behind your back. I won't tell you what they are, you'll find them in the threads. Step three is to start looking at the trees around you. Really start looking at them. Start noticing their structure, their individual characteristics, their growth patterns. Start seeing how many you can identify, and then work on identifying the ones you don't recognize. Then start noticing the overall health of the tree. Are the leaves full and green? Are there dead limbs, and if so where in the canopy? Any signs of insect damage? If so, what type? Any browning or wilting? You get the picture. Climbing is a means to an end. Tree care is the real goal. So if you want to become a tree man, we'll support ya a hundred percent. If ya just get off on climbing and chainsaws, well, we'll try and keep ya safe. Jeff
futbalfantic
ArboristSite Member
All you need to know (and need to know very, very well) what you are expected to know to do to keep the patient alive till he/she can receive definitive care in a hospital. Deviate from that scope of practice and face the consequences.
And yeah, I stayed in a Holliday Inn Express once too...
Sounds like you were/are in the medical feild to some degree. And trust, I know my scope and continue to learn the oddities every day
All you need to know (and need to know very, very well) what you are expected to know to do to keep the patient alive till he/she can receive definitive care in a hospital. Deviate from that scope of practice and face the consequences.
And yeah, I stayed in a Holliday Inn Express once too...
First, do no harm.
I guess I failed to make my original point adequately. This thread seems to have evolved into an evaluation of the newbies motives rather than our responses to them. There is an old saying that I think fits here: "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". Why are you guys reading in this forum? It does not seem to me that many of the posted "answers" here are from seasoned professionals that want to encourage newcomers to join up and participate more often.
My point was that we don't need to be repressive, negative, discouraging, nor rude. A careful evaluation of the average thread in Arb-101 reveals that there are not too many real questions anymore from inexperienced arborists. I believe that is because many of the newbies come to this forum, they get dumped on, and then they don't come back too often.
If you think that they should just man-up and get used to the rough world of real arborists, then we might as well close Arb-101 and advise them to come on up to professional climbers forum and prepare to join the latest cat-fight. Or maybe just get out and step down to homeowner helper forum, where all "how to" advice will be expected to be "hire a professional".
My point was that we don't need to be repressive, negative, discouraging, nor rude. A careful evaluation of the average thread in Arb-101 reveals that there are not too many real questions anymore from inexperienced arborists. I believe that is because many of the newbies come to this forum, they get dumped on, and then they don't come back too often.
If you think that they should just man-up and get used to the rough world of real arborists, then we might as well close Arb-101 and advise them to come on up to professional climbers forum and prepare to join the latest cat-fight. Or maybe just get out and step down to homeowner helper forum, where all "how to" advice will be expected to be "hire a professional".
Unless it's in a state of decline, and threatening a structure.....Oh ####, my bad, thought we were still talking about trees.
The newbies motives and attitude does determine how we respond to the question. If there are not too many real questions being asked in this forum then why do they deserve a real answer? I don't feel we should close this forum nor do I think we should try and dictate our responses to newbies. The ones who want to learn something will stick around.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
too late
sgreanbeans
Treeaculterologist
One thing I see go wrong all the time, a newb will ask a q, then get answers by someone from the HO forum who has no real clue or experience. They watched a vid, tried it in their backyard and now they are a pro giving advice, or the guy that was asking last week, takes his new found knowledge and then is giving advice on it the next week. So the vets jump on them, and often, the thread is derailed. I am guilty of this. I will do better. I also see many very vague questions, when asked for details, the newb either is not interested anymore or they get but hurt. I will say this, if they get but hurt over a average post, then maybe they don't have the skin for this and its good they go a different direction. I don't think its a deal where we don't want them to get into it. Its a deal where we want those who do try and get into it, to do it right. I know I am not alone when I say that the industry is littered with phucktards, jackwagons of shapes and sizes. I get a little tired of the "I just sold a job, how do I do it" then some guy who has only done it for a couple months, is going to give him a master plan on how and why. Its easy to get brash with them, no matter how sincere they really are. When I first joined, I was clueless (nothing has changed), but I was smart enough get is much info as I could on my own, I used that search button before I ever asked a Q, then, when I had all I could find, I dared to ask the elders. I wanted them to see that I was sincere. Once they realized that I was, the knowledge came flooding in. They didn't need to spell it out for me either, they just pointed me in the right direction and away I went. Alot of these new guys dont want to do the research themselves, read a book or work for someone who knows, they have this "too cool for school" attitude, they just want us to give them the answer they want, give them every little detail or they ask about something they already did wrong and they want justification that they did it right. So I see alot u guys bashing them for it, I do it too and rightfully so. I do think we could be a little softer on them, we want them to come back and learn, but we still need to weed out the trolls.
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It's no different than in the real world. You hire two new guys, one polite, eager, jumps in and helps, stays late to ask questions. The other kid already knows it all because he and his old man used to cut firewood. 6 months later, you're thinking about letting the first kid start getting up in a tree or two bacause he's been practicing his knots at home, and asked to borrow your copy of TCC. The second kid you can't even remember his name, cause he got pissed and quit when you kept trying to show him how to keep the chain out of the dirt.
So some guys come on, ask questions and learn, some guys get pissed because they didn't get the answer they wanted.
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
I will sometimes venture to the HO forum and answer questions (I've done it twice and watched 4 videos so I am somewhat qualified). When my advice differs from that of the pros I will frequently swallow my pride and let the OP (who has no idea other than post count) who in the thread is a pro. I never call out the "not so pro" advice, as I was probably the guy giving it, but will sometimes put in a sarcastic emoticon if I'm feeling brave or confrontational
JanThorCro
ArboristSite Operative
Your right, they really don't want to put forth the the effort that your profession begs for. Ignorance is at an all time high right now and it shows up here. I say it like this, most people don't want their "princess cruise line vacation lives" interrupted by responsibility.
A few years ago I was involved with hauling a stretcher down a scree slope loaded with a guy that bounced his way down a cliff after he made a life altering mistake. Kinda clears that responsibility thing right up.
tramp bushler
Addicted to ArboristSite
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Nope. Not what I'm saying. Almost anything involving a ladder is much more than a red flag. .
But its easy to just plainly say. If you do that you will probably die And destroy what you are trying to protect. Hire a professional . !
If they are offended by that. Oh well. But you passed on truthful info without casting aspersions. .
Thanks Tramp! That is what I have been trying to express.
We don't have to change the content of our messages, I just think it can be done with a whole lot less sarcasm, ill will, and derisive tone. Criticism of a newbies plan is a whole lot easier to take if it doesn't sound so much like criticism of the person that made the plan.
If some newbie has a bad plan, we don't need to knock them down while saying "bad idea". We don't need to ##### slap them for not doing a search first. It could be as simple as a friendly explanation like "This is a topic frequently discussed in this forum. Please do a search."
When I first came to Arborist Site, I was a complete newbie at "forums" and "threads" and "community" concepts. I know that I never even knew about the search functions nor how to use them. I have plenty of patience for ignorant folks who just don't know about these things, but I have little patience with those folks who should know better; like how to use good manners, how to address strangers, and how one should behave in life. I don't consider the internet a place where the rules of society no longer apply, and I think that a bit more civility is called for, particularly in Arb-101.
We don't have to change the content of our messages, I just think it can be done with a whole lot less sarcasm, ill will, and derisive tone. Criticism of a newbies plan is a whole lot easier to take if it doesn't sound so much like criticism of the person that made the plan.
If some newbie has a bad plan, we don't need to knock them down while saying "bad idea". We don't need to ##### slap them for not doing a search first. It could be as simple as a friendly explanation like "This is a topic frequently discussed in this forum. Please do a search."
When I first came to Arborist Site, I was a complete newbie at "forums" and "threads" and "community" concepts. I know that I never even knew about the search functions nor how to use them. I have plenty of patience for ignorant folks who just don't know about these things, but I have little patience with those folks who should know better; like how to use good manners, how to address strangers, and how one should behave in life. I don't consider the internet a place where the rules of society no longer apply, and I think that a bit more civility is called for, particularly in Arb-101.
futbalfantic
ArboristSite Member
Man I need a real keyboard. Responding to these posts on my iPad is brutal.
I fall somewhere in the middle, I love the adrenaline rush from the heights, chainsaws, danger, technical challenge, and what not. (guess that is why I got into emergency services). But I've always looked a trees with there structure, growth, health, and what not. Since reading posts more actively. Until coming here I never knew topping was something desired by HO and have noticed it quite often now.
As far as reading through all the posts, I've made it mos of the way through 101.
I fall somewhere in the middle, I love the adrenaline rush from the heights, chainsaws, danger, technical challenge, and what not. (guess that is why I got into emergency services). But I've always looked a trees with there structure, growth, health, and what not. Since reading posts more actively. Until coming here I never knew topping was something desired by HO and have noticed it quite often now.
As far as reading through all the posts, I've made it mos of the way through 101.
Pelorus
Uva uvam vivendo varia fit
I love when the iPad self-corrects what it thinks are spelling mistakes, and the result is gibberish.
