"Nattering Nabobs of Negativism"

[Gologit]

And watch out for the loggers...they'll get you in trouble.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I am the member pdq is referring to. After reading many of the responses to this thread the demeanor behind the answers to the questions are a bit clearer. As a new-ish member here I was reluctant to post because it seemed most responses were in a negative light, telling people to move on and find something else to do. Reading this thread and looking back on some of the posts I see y'all are correct with the points. Esp the "tell me I'm right" question. I respect y'alls opinion and insight, didn't want to get off on the wrong foot with a "dumb question"

Well welcome to AS. Hopefully this thread kind of helped let ya know where we come from. It is a serious, high stress business, and I would venture to say very few of the pro's on this site don't know someone who was either killed or seriously hurt in this business.so maybe we get a little intense at times, but there's a reason. If ya think it's rough on here, ya should see it on the jobsite. So please ask away, just understand you may not get the answer you're looking for, but you might also get some advice that could save ya from some hurt and misery.

Go ahead and tell us what ya got going on, Jeff

 

[CanopyGorilla]

Ya beat me to the jobsite comment Jolly. I sorta laughed. As harsh as AS may seem it is 10x more politically correct than the real deal. Guys kicking dirt and yellin at you with tobacco flying out of their mouthes if you screw something up. Watch and listen for a bit and people give you more respect every single day.

 

[RandyMac]

And watch out for the loggers...they'll get you in trouble.

I'll remember that, thanks for the warning.

 

[bustedup]

And watch out for the loggers...they'll get you in trouble.

LOL ......oh come on loggers are salt of the earth guys (girls too)

 

[bustedup]

I am the member pdq is referring to. After reading many of the responses to this thread the demeanor behind the answers to the questions are a bit clearer. As a new-ish member here I was reluctant to post because it seemed most responses were in a negative light, telling people to move on and find something else to do. Reading this thread and looking back on some of the posts I see y'all are correct with the points. Esp the "tell me I'm right" question. I respect y'alls opinion and insight, didn't want to get off on the wrong foot with a "dumb question"

You'll do fine ......don't take things personally lol..........ask questions .....get advice......read it then either take it or not but ifn ya don't ask ya don't learn .........what you might not understand someone else will ..........It might even take it explained a few different ways before the light goes on but hey we all learn every day


Most of us ain't writing experts .....(me more than most) so lang may be to the point lol .......you could venture into the logging forum lol ifn ya question regards falling or the like ........we won't get ya in trouble .....I'm sure you can do that all by your lonesome lol



post bro that's what makes this site

 

[imagineero]

I think the quality of the answers generally matches the quality of the questions. I've only rarely seen someone ask a quality question and get a poor answer. The trouble is that the questions most of the guys ask really can't be answered. Like if somebody said "hi, I'm a truck driver and I just decided to start my own company as a tree worker. Can you tell me how to get customers, what kind of insurance I need, and which chainsaw is the best? Also, how do i quote jobs and how much money will I earn? I have a ladder"

Where do you start with that kind of stuff? The right answer is something like; "don't give up your day job, start at the bottom labouring for someone else, put your time in and learn every aspect of the business. After 3-6 months you'll know if it's right for you. Then, come back and ask for a saddle reccomendation, and you can start learning to climb. Then, come back and ask more questions about cuts, ropes, different hitches, rigging gear, and different ways of working a tree. Learn the species in your local area. After a year or two you'll be ready to start doing your own small jobs on the side. Come back and ask us at that point about how to price them and make sure you've got photos. After another year or so, you might be looking at getting a truck. We can help you there. 6 months later, maybe a small chipper. By that time hopefully youve had quite a bit of experience, and understand most aspects of the work. Now it's time to learn about running a business, quoting, hiring and training staff etc etc etc....."

When someone asks a fairly specific question, they tend to get high quality advice here. But if you come expecting a 3-5 year trade to be served up to you in 2-3 succinct paragraphs, then you've clearly got your head stuffed too far up your ass and deserve every bit of condescension you receive.

 

[sgreanbeans]

I think one issue is redundancy, we get the same ol stuff........... all the time. I think if that search button was used more, we would have less of the same thing, over and over.

 

[RVALUE]

Either Gologit, or someone similar straitened me out in the early days, suggesting that my pride in home ownership didn't parlay into tree dismantling abilities.......

True to form, it sent me on the right path that I've scarcely crossed until today.



Tarry on.

 

[futbalfantic]

I worked as a fire fight and am a paramedic currently, so I am oh so familiar to the "haze" the new guy (so to speak) routine. Problem is, I am that guy with no climbing experience who wants to get into it with 0 chance of working my way up, working on a crew un intended:

 

[Zale]

I don't believe we are negative but we can be very blunt. There is a difference. I think the folks who post they are quitting their day job with good pay and benefits to go work in the great outdoors and be with the trees tend to catch the most flak. Personally, the guys who say they have rock climbing experience drive me nuts. Its almost like they want us to validate their decision. I love the profession I'm in but I will not sugar coat it for a newbie.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I know CPR and can squirt water from a hose but that don't make me a paramedic or firefighter.

 

[tramp bushler]

I have been doing a little private messaging with another member who stated that he was reluctant to actively post in this forum because of the typical responses from the established members; those fellows who are supposed to be supportive of the newbies.

I think he has a good point.

Questions to this forum often seem to follow one of these formats:
1. I'm a newbie, and would like to get in the business. Most of the advice is geared towards chasing them away from the trade.
2. I have a tree problem, I need some advice. Most of the responses run along the lines of "don't do it, you are unqualified". I personally believe that they already know that; this is why they asked for advice.
3. Equipment and hardware questions. Everyone seems to enjoy answering these questions.
4. Tree climbing and trimming technique questions. Everyone seems to enjoy answering these questions also.

I think that it is a shame that most of the questions posted in this forum gather up a long series of negative responses that are clearly intended to discourage the aspiring arborist to seek another trade or to abandon whatever project they were attempting. I think it is entirely appropriate for us to give advice that includes all of the usual precautionary comments, but I really do not think that it is our job to dump disillusionment and despair on everyone that posts in this forum.

I sincerely doubt that anyone will ever be sued for the advice they give here online, and I really doubt that all of the discouraging advice is genuinely aimed at the original poster's best interests. We all know the tree work is dangerous, but I personally believe that a good deal of the advice is rooted in trade protectionism.

I also think that a lot of the negative responses are the result of regret on the part of the experienced tree workers for their own career path. I think it behooves us to figure out a way to be realistic with aspiring tree workers without being so discouraging and negative on the topic.

Your comments are welcome! Feel free to let me have it, either pro or con, agree or disagree. :msp_sneaky:

I wish I could like this post like a thousand times.

 

[tramp bushler]

. Ya, don't quit your day job. BUT. If you hunt around you can find a crew to work with. There are a million or a thousand things you have to get right in this work. And you can't learn them all at once. Shaun made an excellent summation. Advice worth following. The good thing about the arb.forums is unless your a psychopath, travel time keeps people from being beat senseless or killed for running their mouth.
So in the long run it makes the question asker mature.

There r a lot of? s that the? asker needs to truthfully answer before some? s can be answered also.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I have been doing a little private messaging with another member who stated that he was reluctant to actively post in this forum because of the typical responses from the established members; those fellows who are supposed to be supportive of the newbies.

I think he has a good point.

Questions to this forum often seem to follow one of these formats:
1. I'm a newbie, and would like to get in the business. Most of the advice is geared towards chasing them away from the trade.
2. I have a tree problem, I need some advice. Most of the responses run along the lines of "don't do it, you are unqualified". I personally believe that they already know that; this is why they asked for advice.
3. Equipment and hardware questions. Everyone seems to enjoy answering these questions.
4. Tree climbing and trimming technique questions. Everyone seems to enjoy answering these questions also.

I think that it is a shame that most of the questions posted in this forum gather up a long series of negative responses that are clearly intended to discourage the aspiring arborist to seek another trade or to abandon whatever project they were attempting. I think it is entirely appropriate for us to give advice that includes all of the usual precautionary comments, but I really do not think that it is our job to dump disillusionment and despair on everyone that posts in this forum.

I sincerely doubt that anyone will ever be sued for the advice they give here online, and I really doubt that all of the discouraging advice is genuinely aimed at the original poster's best interests. We all know the tree work is dangerous, but I personally believe that a good deal of the advice is rooted in trade protectionism.

I also think that a lot of the negative responses are the result of regret on the part of the experienced tree workers for their own career path. I think it behooves us to figure out a way to be realistic with aspiring tree workers without being so discouraging and negative on the topic.

Your comments are welcome! Feel free to let me have it, either pro or con, agree or disagree. :msp_sneaky:

There is another side to the coin of one and two. Most of these posters don't introduce themselves or explain their situation, don't seem to have any respect for the industry as a whole, (It's just a chainsaw and a tree, how hard can it be? I've rock climbed and I know knots, how hard can it be?), and are generally just looking for permission, not advice. Honestly, The tree industry has been my chosen profession for twenty years now, and I'm still learning, and always will be. I consider it to be a skilled trade, no different than plumbing, or firefighting, or being an emt. And if I jumped on one of their forums and said "hey, I do trees full time, and want to be a plumber, or firefighter, or emt, but I don't want to quit my day job, and I'm not willing to start at the bottom, can ya give me a few pointers, what do you think their response would be?"

 

[cobey]

Every one has to learn from someone, no one can learn it by punching a keyboard and watching a screen, it is a big help to have the AS,
but everyone has to have a person, and probably several people to teach them. time and real world experiance, they need to submit to someone
that will teach them. if i get some smack put down on me here it may show me how to or not to respond to my boss who has learned what I want to learn :msp_smile:

 

[jefflovstrom]

I always try to bring balance to the conversation,,,:msp_biggrin:
Jeff

 

[KenJax Tree]

I always try to bring balance to the conversation,,,:msp_biggrin:
Jeff

:doubt:

 

[bustedup]

I worked as a fire fight and am a paramedic currently, so I am oh so familiar to the "haze" the new guy (so to speak) routine. Problem is, I am that guy with no climbing experience who wants to get into it with 0 chance of working my way up, working on a crew un intended:

Why don't ya look into joining a recreational tree climbing group ........you would learn to climb there to a fair degree ......don't think they'd teach ya to climb with spurs.


I don't wanna tell ya not to go into any kind of tree work (that is your decision) but ifn ya got a good job I'd stick there as Ifn ya say ya got 0 chance of working ya way up then I kinda don't understand what your looking to achieve??? Ifn ya think doing short courses etc is gonna get ya in to a job climbing and cutting without the experience to go with it then I'd say ya might kinda go hungry .........you'll get found out bro cause courses and even this forum cannot replace experience.

 

[jefflovstrom]

:doubt:

Well, my balance depends on my mood. Also I do not deal with stupid people too good because I will probably call them stupid. Then I will be called a bully. I am not a bully, I just do not think of different ways to say what I feel. I love everyone,,that rhymes with Lovstrom.
Jeff :msp_biggrin: