Tell me about Axes....

[Ambull01]

That's how it works for me, I am much more able to increase my swing speed over whacking around with the anvil on a stick. I don't even bust 120 lbs, I have to rely on speed and technique and tool. And plus, the original supersplitter came stock about as sharp as sharp gets, teflon slick coating to reduce friction in the wood, plus a very good well thought out wedge head shape. La Bomba! The teflon is long wore off, I use a spray can of teflon spray on it now when I go for a splitting session. Heck, I use it on all the axes, helps bunches and is cheap, few bucks a can.

If I was a foot taller and 100 lbs more, most likely could swing the 8lb anvil on a stick just as fast. Boom! But I ain't, so I don't....

Yeah, I feel like I could swing the Fiskars all day long. Very light. Handle has almost no weight, at least it feel that way.

The original is the all black handle? Man I should have bought that instead. The teflon won't last on my X27, it keeps going straight through rounds and into the freaking dirt. I seriously need a cookie round to split on. Another think I need to buy, teflon spray.

 

[Marshy]

The originals have the orange on the handle. Keep it out of the dirt because the steel is brittle and chips easy. Keep the edge tuned up with a flat file.

 

[Ambull01]

The originals have the orange on the handle. Keep it out of the dirt because the steel is brittle and chips easy. Keep the edge tuned up with a flat file.

Nice, I have the original. I like the orange too. Makes it a little harder to lose it in the woods.

 

[Whitespider]

I would like to see proof that the same person can swing an 8# maul as fast as a 4 1/2 lb axe. I don't buy that.

OK... but does he have too??
Let's say he can swing the 4½ pound ax at a striking speed of 70 MPH... which works out to 737.12 foot-pounds of kinetic energy and 140.8 pounds-force momentum.
Now, to equal the same kinetic energy with the 8 pound maul he only needs to swing the thing 52½ MPH, and momentum increases to 187.77 pounds-force.
So... he can give up 25% of the speed, retain the same KE, and gain 25% more momentum.
Hmmmmmm..... maybe it ain't so simple as speed and weight, huh??

C'mon Marshy... it's a sales video... don't make more of it than what it is.
*

 

[Chris-PA]

I watched the video. They made 4 main points:

Handle Strength - Their handle may be stronger, but it better be because it cannot be replaced. With proper use you should not be overstriking much.

Balance - They compared their axe to several others with considerably longer handles, which of course made theirs look like the balance point was closer to the head. Rigged.

Sharpness - They only showed that theirs is sharp out of the box, but so what? It won't stay that way. There is no reason you cannot sharpen any decent axe to a razor edge, and you should.

Teflon Coating - Nice for as long as it lasts, which will not be forever.

So overall the main deal here is a coating that is temporary, the rest is BS.

 

[Marshy]

I watched the video. They made 4 main points:

Handle Strength - Their handle may be stronger, but it better be because it cannot be replaced. With proper use you should not be overstriking much.

Balance - They compared their axe to several others with considerably longer handles, which of course made theirs look like the balance point was closer to the head. Rigged.

Sharpness - They only showed that theirs is sharp out of the box, but so what? It won't stay that way. There is no reason you cannot sharpen any decent axe to a razor edge, and you should.

Teflon Coating - Nice for as long as it lasts, which will not be forever.

So overall the main deal here is a coating that is temporary, the rest is BS.

I dont agree with you. The handle strength is superior to all others. Handles can break for other reasons than over strike. Ive broken them from just plain beating the wood or steel wedge too hard. Had one split the whole length of the handle right down the center and had another one break the fibers about 10" from the sledge head, both were nearly new with no over strikes.

Balanace was not rigged IMO. Look at the left side of the balance point. The Fiskars edge is within an inch or so of the balance point where all ther others are 2 or several inches away. It just meand the center of gravity for the Fiskars is in the head where it ought to be.

Sharpness might not mean much to you out of the box but for the average consumer of user on AS I dont think they will take the time to sharpen their maul that sharp. Yes it can be sharpened but I bet if you did a poll on here and asked how many people that use a 6.5lb maul if they keep it sharp enough to cut paper it might be <25%... that might even apply to the folks with Fiskars too... I keep mine as sharp as a pocket knife but I sharpen my maul the german method like my lawn mower blades, goot'en-uf.

Teflon coating, meh.. it wears off I guess. Not a lot to say there other than the finish under it is still quite smooth vs my other maul and axe...

Hey, its friday, time for

 

[svk]

OK... but does he have too??
Let's say he can swing the 4½ pound ax at a striking speed of 70 MPH... which works out to 737.12 foot-pounds of kinetic energy and 140.8 pounds-force momentum.
Now, to equal the same kinetic energy with the 8 pound maul he only needs to swing the thing 52½ MPH, and momentum increases to 187.77 pounds-force.
So... he can give up 25% of the speed, retain the same KE, and gain 25% more momentum.
Hmmmmmm..... maybe it ain't so simple as speed and weight, huh??

C'mon Marshy... it's a sales video... don't make more of it than what it is.
*

Agree completely with your math.

Don't agree with the statement that both can achieve the same top speed with the same user.

 

[Whitespider]

I watched the video. They made 4 main points:
So overall the main deal here is a coating that is temporary, the rest is BS.

Holy crap‼ Twice in one day‼
Mark it down boys... mark it down
*

 

[Whitespider]

Agree completely with your math.
Don't agree with the statement that both can achieve the same top speed with the same user.

Yeah... I know... just responding.
I'm not even sure how we could prove it either way... at least not definitively.
Just because Superman can, don't mean the Incredible Hulk can.
Heck, I know guys that would have trouble lifting a 4½ pound ax over their head 10 times.
*

 

[svk]

I'd be curious at what weight of tool the *average* person could generate the most energy from a strike when you take in speed and weight.

I'd guess somewhere between 6-8...

 

[Ambull01]

Since this is about axes and I let the X27 dig into the dirt, is the general consensus a flat file to sharpen it? Did a search and that's what most people seem to use. That and/or a whetstone.

 

[svk]

Since this is about axes and I let the X27 dig into the dirt, is the general consensus a flat file to sharpen it? Did a search and that's what most people seem to use. That and/or a whetstone.

Yes that's what I use. I don't worry about hitting the dirt now and then because at 45 bucks I don't expect it to last forever.

 

[mn woodcutter]

I dont agree with you. The handle strength is superior to all others. Handles can break for other reasons than over strike. Ive broken them from just plain beating the wood or steel wedge too hard. Had one split the whole length of the handle right down the center and had another one break the fibers about 10" from the sledge head, both were nearly new with no over strikes.

Balanace was not rigged IMO. Look at the left side of the balance point. The Fiskars edge is within an inch or so of the balance point where all ther others are 2 or several inches away. It just meand the center of gravity for the Fiskars is in the head where it ought to be.

Sharpness might not mean much to you out of the box but for the average consumer of user on AS I dont think they will take the time to sharpen their maul that sharp. Yes it can be sharpened but I bet if you did a poll on here and asked how many people that use a 6.5lb maul if they keep it sharp enough to cut paper it might be <25%... that might even apply to the folks with Fiskars too... I keep mine as sharp as a pocket knife but I sharpen my maul the german method like my lawn mower blades, goot'en-uf.

Teflon coating, meh.. it wears off I guess. Not a lot to say there other than the finish under it is still quite smooth vs my other maul and axe...

Hey, its friday, time for

I think sharpness is a big factor. Both of my 8 and 13 lb maul are as sharp as my fiskars and hold an edge better.

 

[zogger]

Hey guys...that's the only video I know of that even remotely starts to approach a real test of axes. Everything else I have seen is just opinion/reviews/different guys swinging differently in different wood. I know it isn't perfect, but..open to any other true scientific tests.

The best I have is my hands and back my wood with me swinging. Can't brag on my over all grunt, but my aim ain't too shabby....fiskars is far and away the most "accurate" axe I ever hefted. I imagine there are competition axes much better, but never even seen one, let alone use one. I can split more wood and easier with the fiskars over the other tools, in most, but not all, of my wood I cut here. The wood handle maul is what hurt my elbow bad this summer, not the plastic handled fiskars. Couldn't split much of anything for freaking months, really annoying! I love splitting! I just don't get bad shock from the fiskars like I do with the others. I have no explanation for that, other than nostalgia isn't quantifiable, and there are differences in synthetic handles. . Fiskars handles work, you can swing hard and not much shock.

No idea on their metallurgy, why they make that type of steel. They are quite an old company and are familiar with steels.

I personally don't care one way or the other, if you can replace a handle or not, I *don't* want to have to replace it in the first place. If I bust it, lifetime warranty, I'll replace the handle that way. Anyone wants nostalgia, go for it, there's some chert or flint over there, flake out an axe head sharp, go kill some animal to get some sinews, attach to nostalgic piece of wood of choice, and have at it! No fancy schmancy modern alloy steel made in robotic factories, gots to be old timey, REAL old timey "natural" and "nostalgia"! HAHAHAHAHA

Anyway, we go through this every winter, swing what ya want...don't make me post that pic of the two match halves again.....

 

[Marshy]

Yeah... I know... just responding.
I'm not even sure how we could prove it either way... at least not definitively.
Just because Superman can, don't mean the Incredible Hulk can.
Heck, I know guys that would have trouble lifting a 4½ pound ax over their head 10 times.
*

Im not sure there is any value in that. In real life you only use as much force thats requried to do the intended action. Yes there will be left over energy at times but only because it usually better to have too much then not enough when splitting wood.

Thats why I like the approach they took in the movie, i.e. let the axe/maul swing a natural arc (90*) and determine how effective each one is.

Whats that mean in the end? The "person" that swung the maul had to put in more energy from their body to pick up the heavier mass and then swing it throught the air where as the lighter fiskar tool less energy to pick up and swing but was more effective...

Just wait, with more beer this will only get better.

 

[Whitespider]

Balanace was not rigged IMO. Look at the left side of the balance point. The Fiskars edge is within an inch or so of the balance point where all ther others are 2 or several inches away. It just meand the center of gravity for the Fiskars is in the head where it ought to be.

The balance point of my 8# maul, using the edge of my hand, is with the head butted right up against my hand... it's all in choosing the handle and hanging the head on it properly. If I do happen to break a hickory handle, I can be using the tool again in a couple hours (or less, depending). I don't care how strong it is, the Fiskars handle ain't "unbreakable", and it ain't "user" replaceable... so in my personal opinion, the handle is a disadvantage, not an advantage (and it feels funky, to me anyway). As far as sharpness; I didn't think my Fiskars was all that sharp out'a the box... I put a file and stone to it before I even used it, no different than I do with any edged tool. (shrug)

But don't get me wrong... I ain't sayin' it's a bad tool... just sayin' it ain't magic.

Just wait, with more beer this will only get better.

Do I need to catch up?? LOL ‼
*

 

[Marshy]

I think sharpness is a big factor. Both of my 8 and 13 lb maul are as sharp as my fiskars and hold an edge better.

I dont disagree with you. My point was how many people keep their maul as sharp or close to as sharp as the Fiskar comes out of the box? I certainly keep my Fiskar sharp, but not my maul...

 

[zogger]

I dont disagree with you. My point was how many people keep their maul as sharp or close to as sharp as the Fiskar comes out of the box? I certainly keep my Fiskar sharp, but not my maul...

One observation..with their new designs, I don't think the fiskars ship as sharp now as the original one I got. I have checked out several at the stores, sharp but not WATCHOUT sharp.

 

[svk]

One observation..with their new designs, I don't think the fiskars ship as sharp now as the original one I got. I have checked out several at the stores, sharp but not WATCHOUT sharp.

I'm sure some numbskull cut themselves and sued. "I didn't know an axe would be sharp!"

 

[Chris-PA]

OK... but does he have too??
Let's say he can swing the 4½ pound ax at a striking speed of 70 MPH... which works out to 737.12 foot-pounds of kinetic energy and 140.8 pounds-force momentum.
Now, to equal the same kinetic energy with the 8 pound maul he only needs to swing the thing 52½ MPH, and momentum increases to 187.77 pounds-force.
So... he can give up 25% of the speed, retain the same KE, and gain 25% more momentum.
Hmmmmmm..... maybe it ain't so simple as speed and weight, huh??

C'mon Marshy... it's a sales video... don't make more of it than what it is.
*

Your calculation of the relationship of the velocity needed for equivalent energy is correct, however foot-pounds is not a unit of energy, rather it is a measure of torque. But you don't need to calculate the KE to find V2

V2 = SQRT(m1/m2) x V1

But then you go calculating momentum, which is nice but momentum is not what breaks the wood - force is the quantity you need. Force = mass x acceleration, or Work / time. Work here is KE, so you can also use Force = KE / time.

Either way you need more information to calculate force, and since force is a vector quantity you really need to know the direction to know how effective it is. Still, looking at just the magnitude in this case if you use F = ma (acceleration here is deceleration), it's reasonable to assume the higher velocity tool will decelerate faster but of course it also depends on the distance in which it stops.

If you use F = KE/t, then you'd need to know the time the tool head took to stop. Both of these could tell you the peak force. If you have a narrow taper tool that takes a long time to stop, or moves a long distance into the wood, then the peak force will be low, the fibers won't break and your axe will end up stuck in the wood!

Note that the equations concerning how the energy is transferred into force when the round is hit are first order, unlike the velocity squared term in the KE equation, and this is why it is important to focus on velocity. Whenever there is a variable raised to a power, that is the one you need to pay attention to.