Longshoreman strike in CA, overseas orders are stuck in transit!

[alderman]

So what do you all think will happen when the unions are busted? Will things be better or worse? I've seen good and bad working a union job but I shudder to think what it would be like if the unethical management types got free range to reek their havoc. I could tell some real horror stories from both sides.

 

[Ironworker]

So what do you all think will happen when the unions are busted? Will things be better or worse? I've seen good and bad working a union job but I shudder to think what it would be like if the unethical management types got free range to reek their havoc. I could tell some real horror stories from both sides.

My point, they already treat the backbone of this country like slaves. You think any of them or their kids did any time in the military.

 

[Gologit]

About ten years ago a company I was logging for had a fleet of lumber trucks. The drivers decided they weren't happy with the way the company treated them and voted to join Teamsters. Teamsters really painted a rosy picture of how things would improve and how much better off the drivers would be.
Us guys in the woods and the mill workers watched the whole procedings closely 'cause we thought maybe we'd want to go union too.
After three years of Teamster representation it dawned on the drivers that the Teamster benefits weren't nearly as good as what they'd had under the company programs. The pay raises the Teamsters got for the drivers were actually less than what the company had been giving every year. Plus, the company health benefits were better than the union. The company had given production bonuses, safety bonuses, profit sharing bonuses, had a great 401K program, discounts on lumber, a free pair of boots every year, free gloves, and gift certificates for every employee on Thanksgiving and Christmas. That all stopped when Teamsters came in. The company's attitude was..."it's not in the union contract you guys wanted so bad so we're not paying it anymore".
The drivers I talked to figured that they'd actually taken a net loss in pay and benefits under Teamsters as compared to what the company offered.
Three years after the drivers voted Teamsters in they voted Teamsters out. The vote was unanimous.
Us guys in the woods and the guys in the mills watched...and we learned.
A union isn't always the answer. Matter of fact, it's seldom the answer...at least in our case.

 

[treeslayer2003]

well i feel bad for the west coast........what i hear is that export log prices are dropping because they aren't moving out fast enough.......see how the chain works here. you will soon see import prices go up for the same reason.
this is bad for everyone. i hope it gets worked out soon.

i guess the whole concept is foreign to me, if i don't like your price i'll look for a better one. if i don't like your wage, i''ll look elsewhere. if every one did that then no union would be needed.

 

[mdavlee]

The worst part of this in my craft is non union companies bringing in mexican, columbian, Puerto Rican, and other immigrants in paying them 70% of what we were making at the time. They're flooding the pool with them where skilled Americans can't get a job paying as good as it did 10 years ago. So far the unions haven't let in illegal immigrants.

 

[treeslayer2003]

you mean the educated unskilled

 

[Gologit]

i guess the whole concept is foreign to me, if i don't like your price i'll look for a better one. if i don't like your wage, i''ll look elsewhere. if every one did that then no union would be needed.

Same here. You and I are in a unique occupation in that we're always working ourselves out of a job.

 

[milkman]

Looks like it's over, just a little catchin up to do.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-at-west-coast-ports-comes-to-an-end-for-now/

 

[fordf150]

i gave up on this thread...came back to check on it and nothing has changed...kinda reminds me of a union job

 

[AKDoug]

That is exactly why the government has no interest stopping illegal aliens from crossing the border or sending the millions of them who are already here back. They will flap their jaws all over Washington and wring their hands but the truth is if people weren't getting rich employing them the problem would go away.

Our idiot president will do anything for a vote. It is an asinine system we have in this country. We value useful labor very little yet reward corporate liars and thieves who do nothing except push papers around with extravagant wages and benefits.

I'd like someone to explain to me why unions continuously support political candidates that are absolutely at odds with the lifestyles and beliefs of the membership?

 

[treeslayer2003]

I never knew Weedeaterman was such a trouble maker. He sure sells some nice stuff!
I better get off my soapbox before I fall down and break my good hip.

lol, nah he frustrated over not getting his order. i would be to.

 

[treeslayer2003]

Same here. You and I are in a unique occupation in that we're always working ourselves out of a job.

i try to leave the little ones

 

[Ironworker]

Same here. You and I are in a unique occupation in that we're always working ourselves out of a job.

I hear guys say things like "what's the rush, you're gonna work us out of a job" those guys go right to the top of the lay off list and spend a lot of time "down the hall"

 

[treeslayer2003]

ironworker, its an inside logger joke. we cutting down trees till they gone, get it?

 

[triptester]

I spent many days working around them and eating lunch and playing cards with them. I ran an experimental cooling oil filter project at a GM engine plant for 12 hours a day 7 days a week for several months. It was a batch operation and I had about 20 minutes of free time every hour while the centrifuge cycled. That gave me 4 hours a day to just hang out. The production workers and assembly guys work their tails off. The skilled trades guys play buy a different set of rules.

My best friend is a retired a pattern maker at G.M. He used to make all kinds of cool stuff and bring it home in his lunch box. He built a two stage snow blower, a log splitter, a 15 inch power feed wood planer and a bunch of other shop equipment and specialized tools for working on our motorcycles. He is a very skilled guy and would make the difficult parts at work and the stuff to large for the lunch box he would fab at home.

He told me that most of the other guys just sit around and read in their spare time and he didn't like to read all that much he liked keeping busy. It was several years later that I got to witness it first hand. He was telling me the truth. The production workers in an auto plant earn every penny they get. The are time studied and work their buts off.

Skilled trades are a whole different ball game. I have talked to many guys in skilled trades that made 6 figures and laughed at how little they actually had to do to earn it.
I have personally worked on GM assembly lines for several years. I paid my union dues and was happy to have a job. After I figured out how the system worked I bailed out.

My dad was a teamster and I have friends who worked the docks on the east coast. I have no desire to support a bunch of extortionist. The pendulum has swung to far.
Our state aid to public schools is almost $8,000 a year per student, the kids are learning less and districts are still going bankrupt. Because we are not buying enough lottery tickets?

When trades people are just sitting around in the large auto plants, paper mills and similar large plants the companies are making money. When these people are working it means production has slowed or stopped due to a breakdown. Would you like to see your local firemen working all the time or have them sitting in the firehouse with nothing to do.

 

[OnTheRoad]

I do a lot of service work in mills, I never stated the mill was nonunion, I am not eligible to be in a union nor do I ever want to be.

Nope, my opinion of a union will never change when you see what I have seen.......can't promote a man on his merit, only his seniority....

Years ago I watched a crew of electricians running a 24" cable tray stop at a brick wall and wait (3 hours of so) for masons to arrive and cut a hole so they could go through..

Go back and reread my post

That's wierd. I worked for laborers 1290 and now work for operators 132 and never once saw anything like that. Now, you can't have an unqualified person operate a machine for example but what you are describing sounds like every story I have ever heard from a non union guy explaining why he doesn't want to be union.

 

[OnTheRoad]

I worked as an engineer for a company that made plastic thermoforming machinery. A bunch of local farmers worked in our shop using equipment you might find in an average farm shop. We sold equipment to the auto makers. I made many trips to the auto plants for various projects. I was constantly amazed by the number of highly skilled tradesmen who spent the day reading newspapers and drinking while sitting around state of the art machine shop equipment that was not being used. And then they give these guys a $10,000 bonus if the company has a good year. I fail to see the value in that. The cost of the underutilized skilled trades is passed on to the consumer. Looking at the price tags on new cars and trucks is enough to make me puke. Only a longshoreman can afford to buy one.

Do you know how much, on average, union wages cost per vehicle?

$2,400.

What is that , 5-10%? That's a number most companies would dream of.

 

[OnTheRoad]

So what do you all think will happen when the unions are busted? Will things be better or worse? I've seen good and bad working a union job but I shudder to think what it would be like if the unethical management types got free range to reek their havoc. I could tell some real horror stories from both sides.

That's easy. The non union workers benefit greatly from the efforts of organized labor. If you think the middle class is dead now, wait until the dismantling of organized labor is complete.

Our nation has an unsustainable concentration of wealth at the top. Killing off the negotiating power of the working class will be the final nail in the common man's coffin. According to economist Robert Reich, since 2009 95% of the economic gains have gone to the top 1%. What is it 10% of the population of this country have 90% of the wealth?

Yeah, those poor, poor corporations. What this country needs is more money for the rich. **** the working man.

 

[OnTheRoad]

I'd like someone to explain to me why unions continuously support political candidates that are absolutely at odds with the lifestyles and beliefs of the membership?

I haven't seen that. Can you give us some examples?

 

[OnTheRoad]

At a rate of $50 an hour one man can build a car from raw materials in less than 48 hours? Wow when I worked at fisher body and hydramatics we could not reach those numbers.

And when did you work there?