Felling my 1st Big Ash

[ReggieT]

Headed out to a friends pasture...he has an assortment of oak & white ash.
He'd like me to remove a 45 ft Ash that has a slight forward lean...nothing within a 100 ft of the felling direction, easy escape routes, no other tree with 30-40 ft to either side.
YET, my skill set is bucking to firewood length...not felling.

Just fired my old friend who can't stay sober ..but was a Wizard in the woods and at felling trees!!!
So my main experience is now a goner.
My primary concern is everything I've read about Ash being prone to "barber chairing"...

Any advice or suggestions you guys could provide would be appreciated.
Dolmar 116si is in the shop AGAIN...so it will be the MS390 20 in bar & the 025 for limbing.

Reg

 

[Westboastfaller]

Yes

 

[ReggieT]

Yes

???

 

[Westboastfaller]

Just playing around
Just don't fire me...

Give me a few min and I'll hook ya up good.

One tip to start is don't fall directly with the lean ..this tree has a slight lean?

 

[ReggieT]

Just playing around
Just don't fire me...

Give me a few min and I'll hook ya up good.

One tip to start is don't fall directly with the lean ..this tree has a slight lean?

Yeah...kinda heavy on one side that's already leaning ever so slightly forward...

 

[Westboastfaller]

I will give it to you general not just pertaining to this tree.
If its a multi stem (school marm) you may be able to make a high cut to reduce some weight.
Sharp and fast cutting is always safer as the fast cutting saw is quickly releasing the stress. As I say not with the heavy lean but off the lean unless you use a beavertail or set a trigger. (More on that later)
Undercut has to consist of two presice cuts and undercut properly cleaned out. Improperly cleaned creates a 'Dutchman' and bypass cutting your flat cut will create a 'Blind Dutchman' which can create 'barberchairing' and premature breaking of holding wood...

 

[Westboastfaller]

So basically we will call the lean 'the front' So the heavy part is basically over the slight lean or off to a side?

 

[ReggieT]

So basically we will call the lean 'the front' So the heavy part is basically over the slight lean or off to a side?

You are correct thus far...

 

[Westboastfaller]

How big is the Dia? as you have a 20" bar you say

Make sure the opening is at least a .5 to 1 ratio. Premature closing will create barberchairing' for sure.
It means if your undercut ,(flatcut) is one foot then your angled cut needs to be a minimum of 45° to achieve this. At 45° would give you a depth of 1 ft and a 6" opening = 1\2 to 1 ratio

 

[ReggieT]

How big is the Dia? as you have a 20" bar you say

Make sure the opening is at least a .5 to 1 ratio. Premature closing will create barberchairing' for sure.
It means if your undercut ,(flatcut) is one foot then your angled cut needs to be a minimum of 45° to achieve this. At 45° would give you a depth of 1 ft and a 6" opening = 1\2 to 1 ratio

Diameter is about 25 inches...must retire now slumber calleth and so does yonder white ash tree in about 6 hours thanks mate.

 

[Westboastfaller]

That was a question I was trying to verify from your first response.
Is the weight directly with the slight 'front' lean *OR* to a side more.

 

[Westboastfaller]

No kidding ...I'll throw a few more out there if you have time in the morn to read quickly.

Keep them undercuts clean

Peace

Jamie

 

[Westboastfaller]

So when we say take it of the 'lean'
may not always mean stem lean
But weight lean as we say "fall from the 'high' side" really means the safe side but is usually the high side.
So if the stem has a slight front lean
but has a lot of top weight (extended weight) 45° to the 'low' side then the tention wood will be 180° off the weight making it OK to fall with the stem lean with out bore cuts as you are not backcuting will the tention. right? excellent... Really dose this $hit make sense to anyone?

The fall:
It's what I IMAGINE it to be.
so its an advice scenario.
You obviously will have to make the final decision on what YOU think based on what I have shared as I can't assess it from the Island.

Your falling just one tree so take your time and start with the flat cut and make sure its perfectly level.
as your going to need to sight through your UC (undercut) on the 'low' side (under the side weight) and set a BC (back cut). If your U/C is not level then your step will be off and perhaps fooling you and end up undercutting you U/C on the far side witch is unacceptable or a high step that looks like crap and can be hard to judge holding wood as well as hard to wedge.

ThIs is what I imagine what your up against and this is what I'd do.
We'll use the clock
12 is the stem lean, 2:30 is the weight on low side and 180° off the weight is 8:30 (tention wood) that means B/C is at 6 but our tention wood is at 8:30 (that's a good thing)

You have a 20" bar & 25" tree
Start your U/C & B/C on the 'low' side/ under the weight.
Set your flat cut of U/C by cutting in just far enough to hold your saw and correct if both angles aren't right.. (You are not committed)
as you are going to step back and take a knee so you're eye level with you bar
If both angle are level then continue,
if not reset for level
Finish U/C and clean, but don't chase your angled cut, again realine if needed.
B/C... Start under the weight (compression side) turn bar so tip is pointing towards 6:00 so you can sight through the undercut and now you will set for your B/C
This is were the level U/C is SOOO important and hence my expression "You start with $hit you end with $hit"
Rev the saw as you're leveling and stick it enough to set and have a look. You want to be about 2" above with B/C on a conventional cut of that dia of trunk to form a 2" anti kickback step.
If your level (both angles) and step is assured then I cut a little more so I can follow the cut as I flip the saw and bore in just behind the U/C in this case your only boring 8-10" then pull out once your sure and continue walking your way around to safe side with powerhead leading.
After you are sure the tip is clear from cutting your holding wood then dog in and clean up the bottom.
Never hurts to set a wedge on the bottom to prevent compression pinch due to heavy sidebind. More likely with a longer bar as it would pretrude through the compression area opon finishing cut on 'high side'
***Always make sure you cut enough the first and only time you cut the bottom because you're **NEVER going back.
Rot, splits, root system, anchoring ability, location & weight/lean will dictate which tecnique would be best suited.
*It's just a guide line.^^^ Other techniques may be needed.

Post pics

 

[Trx250r180]

I would just do a coos bay cut with the lean and watch it fall

Sorry for the long post

 

[Swamp Yankee]

I'm not there,

and I try to never give advise on dropping a tree without seeing it live, up close and personal.

That said, I do have one suggestion that may help you. My nephew is learning tree falling and I've been working with him in his wooded acreage. One thing I showed him and it's helped him a lot, is to use lumber crayons or a small paint brush and draw the cuts on the tree prior to starting. This does a couple things. First, he gets to stand back, look at the crown, the lean, wind direction etc. in relation to what he intends to do and how these factors may or may not influence his plan. Second, as he starts to cut he has a for lack of a better term, "color by the numbers to follow". He now has a guide so he sees the notch insuring if he's removing the proper wood, and that his back cut is not too high or too low in relation to the notch, etc.

Good luck with your endeavor, let us know how you make out.

Take Care

 

[ReggieT]

I'm not there,

and I try to never give advise on dropping a tree without seeing it live, up close and personal.

That said, I do have one suggestion that may help you. My nephew is learning tree falling and I've been working with him in his wooded acreage. One thing I showed him and it's helped him a lot, is to use lumber crayons or a small paint brush and draw the cuts on the tree prior to starting. This does a couple things. First, he gets to stand back, look at the crown, the lean, wind direction etc. in relation to what he intends to do and how these factors may or may not influence his plan. Second, as he starts to cut he has a for lack of a better term, "color by the numbers to follow". He now has a guide so he sees the notch insuring if he's removing the proper wood, and that his back cut is not too high or too low in relation to the notch, etc.

Good luck with your endeavor, let us know how you make out.

Take Care

Mighty fine advice...since there is no rush on this...I'm gonna take my time and get out and snap some pics and post em on here as well.
Thanks Again

 

[Westboastfaller]

I would just do a coos bay cut with the lean and watch it fall

Sorry for the long post

*smiles* smart azz
Which brings me to my next point:
Exit to safety and DON'T WATCH YOUR TREE FALL
Watch your canopy.

 

[stihly dan]

Westboast, was that English? Sounds great but in the end I had no idea what you were saying. To bad cause I was interested.

 

[HuskStihl]

So when we say take it of the 'lean'
may not always mean stem lean
But weight lean as we say "fall from the 'high' side" really means the safe side but is usually the high side.
So if the stem has a slight front lean
but has a lot of top weight (extended weight) 45° to the 'low' side then the tention wood will be 180° off the weight making it OK to fall with the stem lean with out bore cuts as you are not backcuting will the tention. right? excellent... Really dose this $hit make sense to anyone?

The fall:
It's what I IMAGINE it to be.
so its an advice scenario.
You obviously will have to make the final decision on what YOU think based on what I have shared as I can't assess it from the Island.

Your falling just one tree so take your time and start with the flat cut and make sure its perfectly level.
as your going to need to sight through your UC (undercut) on the 'low' side (under the side weight) and set a BC (back cut). If your U/C is not level then your step will be off and perhaps fooling you and end up undercutting you U/C on the far side witch is unacceptable or a high step that looks like crap and can be hard to judge holding wood as well as hard to wedge.

ThIs is what I imagine what your up against and this is what I'd do.
We'll use the clock
12 is the stem lean 2:30 is the weight on low side and 180° off the weight is 8:30 (tention wood) that means B/C is at 6 but our tention wood is at 8:30 (that's a good thing)

You have a 20" bar 25" tree
Start your U/C & B/C on the 'low' side/ under the weight.
Set your flat cut of U/C by cutting in just far enough to hold your saw and correct if both angles aren't right.. (You are not committed)
as you are going to step back and take a knee so you're eye level with you bar
If both angle are level then continue,
if not reset.
Finish U/C and clean, but don't chase your angled cut, again realine if needed.
B/C... Start under the weight (compression side) turn bar so tip is pointing towards 6 so you can sight through the undercut and now you will set for your B/C
This is were the level U/C is SOOO important and hence my expression "You start with $hit you end with $hit"
Rev the saw as you're leveling and stick it enough to set and have a look. You want to be about 2" above on a conventional cut of that dia to finish with a 2" anti kickback step.
If your level (both angles) and step is assured then I cut a little more so I can follow the cut as I flip the saw and bore in just behind the U/C in this case your only boring 8-10" then pull out once your sure and continue walking your way around to safe side with powerhead leading.
After you are sure the tip is clear from cutting your holding wood then dog in and clean up the bottom.
Never hurts to set a wedge on the bottom as you can still get pinch due to heavy sidebind fron the top of the cut, more likely with a longer bar.
***Always make sure you cut enough the first and only time you cut the bottom because you're **NEVER going back.
Rot and splits will dictate everything
It's just a guide line. Other techniques may be needed.

Post pics

I don't think he's envisioning a Humboldt.

 

[unclemoustache]

Plunge cut (or boring cut) and leave the final holding wood to cut last.