The short answer is, it depends. Every tree needs to be evaluated for hazards, lean, an escape route and then a cutting plan developed based on the analysis.
Dangerous barber chair felling ash infected with emerald ash borer
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camel2019
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The big one could be left standing for all I care the smaller ones shouldn’t be too hard to throw a line into to help them over in the direction I want. My buddy burns mainly ash but this year had to buy some oak these trees will be added to the pile if they are dry enough. I still wished he had a splitter as theirs a few full cord of wood sitting there and that’s at least 4 days of me swinging a maul. And if I find one solid enough I’m grabbing a section for axe handlesThe short answer is, it depends. Every tree needs to be evaluated for hazards, lean, an escape route and then a cutting plan developed based on the analysis.
one can only dream.
You have to be careful with roping dead ash as if they've been dead for a while it is not uncommon for the tops to break off or for the tree to break off mid-trunk.
If they are on the edge of a field they might have a natural tendency to fall towards the field. This as trunk lean and/or limb arrangement tends to place the center of mass towards the field. If it isn't obvious you could use a plumb bob from different perspectives to determine which way the center of mass is oriented to confirm this tendency.
Use an open face cut (≈70°) so that the hinge doesn't break off until the tree is almost on the ground... Long dead ash hinges will break right off on a narrow face cut...
I only use plunge cuts on the dead ash. Tricky trees now they are so dead, but stubborn and still have someone standing in the woods.
Best plan of attack - treat every dead ash as if it wants to kill you. Never stand under an overhanging limb - never ever - no matter how sound the tree appears to be nor how fast you are on your feet nor your use of a spotter. Never consider your cutting method - bore/plunge, Coos Bay, line in the tree, etc. as a failsafe. Never rely on your judgment of soundness.
In the past I have previously posted pictures of stems breaking off overhead during a cut, unexpected barber chair, exploding tops, etc. Just a week ago Saturday, I cut several hazard trees for the county firing range. Three were dead ash. All three of them did unexpected things. The first was between 2 to 2 1/2' with a lot of missing bark overhead. I chose to bore cut it. Before I could complete the creation of the trigger, it busted free at the stump. Yet it was so sound that it took out a 10 to 12" live tree and landed on two points of a ravine without busting. The second was of similar size but had all of its bark. It exploded upon impact. The third was a smaller tree about 15" at the cut. It appeared sound but was leaning on a live tree. I attempted to use the lean to fall it to the side, hoping that it would just slither down the live tree. It didn't cooperate even with wedging and a thin hinge. Instead of removing the hazard, I had increased the hazard. As I was leaving to retrieve a cable to pull it over, one of the range officers came by to check on me. I pointed out to him the compromised tree and told him to make sure no one came near it. As he was expressing his appreciation for the removal of the hazard trees, a strong wind began to gust and swirl. Within seconds, a 6' section of the top fell right where I had been standing during the cut and the wedging. Though only arm size in diameter, it would have broken my back if I had been at the tree. A few seconds later the stem broke off from the stump and about 10' above my cut, with that section falling almost perpendicular to my intended fall, i.e., directly opposite of the lean as the stem simply jack-knifed. The remaining stem swung in an arc about 15' from the stump as it slid down the live tree ramming its end into the ground, which required me to mechanically pull it the rest of the way down.
If you can afford to leave a dead ash to nature, leave it.
Ron
In the past I have previously posted pictures of stems breaking off overhead during a cut, unexpected barber chair, exploding tops, etc. Just a week ago Saturday, I cut several hazard trees for the county firing range. Three were dead ash. All three of them did unexpected things. The first was between 2 to 2 1/2' with a lot of missing bark overhead. I chose to bore cut it. Before I could complete the creation of the trigger, it busted free at the stump. Yet it was so sound that it took out a 10 to 12" live tree and landed on two points of a ravine without busting. The second was of similar size but had all of its bark. It exploded upon impact. The third was a smaller tree about 15" at the cut. It appeared sound but was leaning on a live tree. I attempted to use the lean to fall it to the side, hoping that it would just slither down the live tree. It didn't cooperate even with wedging and a thin hinge. Instead of removing the hazard, I had increased the hazard. As I was leaving to retrieve a cable to pull it over, one of the range officers came by to check on me. I pointed out to him the compromised tree and told him to make sure no one came near it. As he was expressing his appreciation for the removal of the hazard trees, a strong wind began to gust and swirl. Within seconds, a 6' section of the top fell right where I had been standing during the cut and the wedging. Though only arm size in diameter, it would have broken my back if I had been at the tree. A few seconds later the stem broke off from the stump and about 10' above my cut, with that section falling almost perpendicular to my intended fall, i.e., directly opposite of the lean as the stem simply jack-knifed. The remaining stem swung in an arc about 15' from the stump as it slid down the live tree ramming its end into the ground, which required me to mechanically pull it the rest of the way down.
If you can afford to leave a dead ash to nature, leave it.
Ron
Below is another example of the unpredictability of dead ash. I cut this hazard tree at the range today. It had a slight lean. Note there is no back cut. I just started the bore to set a hinge. Bore was only about 6" deep when the tree cracked and I fled.
The incomplete bore.
The cleared area will soon be open to the public, which is why this tree was not left for nature to handle.
Be safe.
Ron
The incomplete bore.
The cleared area will soon be open to the public, which is why this tree was not left for nature to handle.
Be safe.
Ron
Out of curiosity, I wonder how long this tree has been dead.
Too long. Sorry, I have no idea.
Ron
Ron
You may come to learn that the Game of Logging isn't the only game in town when it comes to getting trees to the ground safely, expediently, or economically. As others have pointed out, it is a system of rules that seem to revolve more around "do it this way" rather than "this is why we do it this way".
That is just my impression, of course, as I have never taken such a course, and don't think I would get along too well with the instructors. Also, if you aren't logging, then you shouldn't presume that what works well in one industry is how you should be dropping your trees.
I've never really had a tree barber chair on me, and I've been cutting 'em down professionally since about 1987. There is a LOT I didn't know back then, but I have been learning consistently since then. Most of the loggers would be horrified by my methods, as I don't care about saving any lumber, and I seldom wedge a tree over. I set ropes, and pull them. Urban arboriculture is considerably different than logging.
Barber chair pretty much never happens when the face cut is sufficiently deep. As an arborist climber, I learned kinda early that top cutting a branch without an undercut can cause some really wild barber-chairs. Fundamentally, every horizontal branch is a potential barber chair, but we needn't go through all the nonsense that the fellers do on a stump cut. Deep face cut, then top cut. It never "barbers". And that is on a horizontal branch: 100% lean, so to speak.
Down on the ground, however, it is considerably different. Gravity isn't assured to carry all the wood away from the climber, so barber chair is a greater risk to the guy standing where the wood will be falling. The physics as to how the wood splits on a barber chair, however, is about the same.
Ever ask yourself why GOL and others insist on having a shallow face cut and a very wide opening? It is because they rely on using wedges to incline the fall, and it is mostly based on logging for tall, thin conifers. That system doesn't apply the same for deciduous trees that may be as wide as they are tall, and the methods used need to accommodate the tree in question. If the tree in question is a heavily leaning dead ash: cut it with a deep face cut of normal proportions, but make sure you stop before pinching your bar. Make damn sure you are felling with the lean, too! There cannot be any wind opposing the fall. Once you have that deep face cut, just back cut the tree without any expectation of needing wedges to send it over.
Obviously, this method flies in the face of what GOL (and others) will tell you, but what counts is that you are just letting gravity do all the work. If you use a wedge-dependent technique to fell a tree that is already going in the direction of gravity, then you might very well get a barber chair, because your face cut is too shallow.
Now if your judgement is wrong, the tree begins to set back, and your face cut is too deep and you don't have a rope attached... You have a looming disaster, and no wedge can save it.
If you are attempting to fell a leaner sideways to the lean, then that is a completely different situation, and requires a different felling technique.
Dead EAB Ash is almost guaranteed to barber chair. It's the way they die with the borers moving around and girdling the trees in different sections.
Only way I could get them not to BC was plunge cuts.
But even then, as you see from rwoods, they do what they want.
We have had them fall and twist 10-20' feet above the cut on the way down as they disintegrate.
I am leaving the rest in the woods to fall by themselves or will rope em down and be far away.
Only way I could get them not to BC was plunge cuts.
But even then, as you see from rwoods, they do what they want.
We have had them fall and twist 10-20' feet above the cut on the way down as they disintegrate.
I am leaving the rest in the woods to fall by themselves or will rope em down and be far away.
KD, You came to the right place. These forums for the most part are not intended to be politically correct, woke, or a place to come to get the answer YOU want to hear. Pointed, direct, for the most part correct responses are what I have received. I'm certain there was nothing personal intended by Northmans comments. Have a good day.
OT
Good morning Northwood, Can you critique this cut? What did they do wrong?
lol Notice any brown spots in the snow?
too narrow of a face cut, tree stalled, they tried forcing it... kapow Trees Fight back, and they fight dirty.
We did almost a whole thread on that picture, long time ago. It was widely speculated to be a fake picture (by me, among others) on account of the lack of tracks in the snow from the tractor and the bizarre angle at which it is hanging. As I recall, I tracked that photo down to a tractor forum as the source for that picture. It was posted along with several other views of the tractor that made it seem authentic, but the backgrounds didn't match too well. There was no source story explaining the pictures, either.
I can critique the cut: tractors should be removed from the area prior to starting the chainsaw. Especially if you don't know what you are doing. There is a very special cut to be used with felling head leaners by pushing them over with a tractor, and even then it is a bad idea.
It appears every tree is treated as an individual. After taking the four levels of the GOL, I can now look back at all dumb things I did with a chainsaw and some how come through with out a scratch. I am now much aware of potential hazards and that makes me safer. That nearly a half century of using a chainsaw, I learned a few things to that you can get from any class or one mentor. It has been said many times in this forum that to become proficient, whether it's sharpening a chain or cutting a tree, practice and experience are great teachers. I have yet to be given bad advice on Arborsite.KD, You came to the right place. These forums for the most part are not intended to be politically correct, woke, or a place to come to get the answer YOU want to hear. Pointed, direct, for the most part correct responses are what I have received. I'm certain there was nothing personal intended by Northmans comments. Have a good day.
That said, 90% of what I cut for firewood is dead ash and after over two decades in these woods I have yet to have an ash barber chair, maybe luck, maybe experience, maybe the GOL . . .
Well... You haven't been reading all the posts. We are constantly watchful for bad advice around here.
I am referring to questions I have asked. I do not have time to read every post. Glad misinformation is flagged
I have quite a few on my property that have been dead 15+ years. Once I see woodpeckers in them there usually past the point for firewood. 9 out of 10 trees that fell it was whatever it is called when the roots rot out and there's just that stub and trees down. I see some of the ash trees that have been dead and barkless are now sprouting suckers from the 1st foot of tree above the ground.
I've seen some stump growth also... I try to leave that new growth when I take down the hazard trees... That is probably a futile hope that the "tree," really the stump, will survive and a tree will regrow from the stump. When I looked into this I found out that the new growth are water sprouts (from Epicormic buds). They are the trees attempt to increase the amount of photosynthesis in it's attempt to survive the stress caused by the EAB. I'm curious to see if any of those stumps are still alive in 2-3+ years.
