Burning bar oil - not deliberately!

[MattG]

Hi people,

Wondered if anyone could give me some advice. I've got some experience of running saws, but I'm a bit of a rookie where bigger saws are concerned.

Here's the story: I've got some wood to put my 064 to work, it's really tough cherry wood between 20" - 25" thick. I got given 3 x 10 foot long trunks and started sawing through the gnarly end near the roots.

On the saw, I'm using stihl bar oil, the oiler is turned up to the max, and I'm using a 20" B+C (regular 30 degree teeth on chain). The chain is sharp - I was pulling off 3mm wide reasonable lengths of ribbons/noodles as I sawed. After a couple of cuts, though, the B+C must've got really hot, since loads of blue smoke starts coming off the bar. The bar itself HAS NOT gone a blue colour at the edges - which I've read can happen if you get too hot. Like I said the oiler is up to max, and it seems to be oiling ok.

So is this a major problem? Or is the saw just telling me to slow down a bit - since the wood is real tough? Other than this the saw seems to be running good.

Any advice appreciated,
Matt

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

May have dulled chain in dirt on or embedded in root ends. That will dull quickly. Try sharp chain in clean wood to compare.

LoveStihlQuality

 

[MattG]

May have dulled chain in dirt on or embedded in root ends. That will dull quickly. Try sharp chain in clean wood to compare.

LoveStihlQuality

Yeah, I definitely hit some dirt. So is the blue smoke from the burning oil something to avoid? Is it telling me to slow down and sharpen the chain back up?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

Oh yeah. As chain dulls, the big chips get smaller. Sharpen or swap chains before it makes sawdust. If really hard, bigger wood, don't push too hard. Your saw will tell you how hard you can push.

LoveStihlQuality

 

[MattG]

Oh yeah. As chain dulls, the big chips get smaller. Sharpen or swap chains before it makes sawdust. If really hard, bigger wood, don't push too hard. Your saw will tell you how hard you can push.

LoveStihlQuality

Ok, thanks. I'll back off when it next starts smoking with a sharpened chain.

Matt

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

Smoking is too late. Make sure its oiling. You have a nice powerful saw. You will get feel. Post pics.

LoveStihlQuality

 

[MattG]

Smoking is too late. Make sure its oiling. You have a nice powerful saw. You will get feel. Post pics.

LoveStihlQuality

It is a powerful saw and I've got the feel of it cutting other wood, it's just that this stuff is so damn hard! The mud is not helping.

Thanks for advice, will post pics another day........time for bed soon in these parts

Matt

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Mud will wreck a chisel chain in seconds. Avoid cutting where the mud is packed into the bark. Smoke is a sign of bad stuff happening.

 

[Mad Professor]

Cherry, green or seasoned is "soft" hardwood. Your 064 w/20" bar should eat it up and not blink a bit. If it does something is amiss

20-25" my 038 and 036 handle fine

 

[Ted Jenkins]

My take is that you are cutting hardwood. If you are cutting what I think you are cutting then some would say HARDWOOD. Which mean every two or three cuts you will have to sharpen your chain or more. Semi chisel bit chain is the only thing that will have a chance unless its carbide injected chain that is quite pricey. If you do not know how to sharpen your chain then now is a great time to learn. I use a 6 inch C clamp with a lag bolt welded to it so that I can screw the clamp in the most convenient location to use as a portable vice to hold the bar while I am sharpening. I find that the rakers need to be spot on. If the rakers are too shallow the chain will just skim over the wood cause the cutting edge to get dull really fast. The smoke you are seeing is that of the chain that is getting very hot because it is not cutting. Thanks

 

[MattG]

My take is that you are cutting hardwood. If you are cutting what I think you are cutting then some would say HARDWOOD. Which mean every two or three cuts you will have to sharpen your chain or more. Semi chisel bit chain is the only thing that will have a chance unless its carbide injected chain that is quite pricey. If you do not know how to sharpen your chain then now is a great time to learn. I use a 6 inch C clamp with a lag bolt welded to it so that I can screw the clamp in the most convenient location to use as a portable vice to hold the bar while I am sharpening. I find that the rakers need to be spot on. If the rakers are too shallow the chain will just skim over the wood cause the cutting edge to get dull really fast. The smoke you are seeing is that of the chain that is getting very hot because it is not cutting. Thanks

Thanks for this,

I'm using a 3621/72 chain, regular RSC regular type. (I don't know a great deal about the semi-chisel, chisel, etc types). I'm ok with sharpening the cutters - since the trunks are right outside my garage, I clamp the bar in my bench vice and take my time using a guide mounted file.

What I'm not so good at is the rakers. I've filed them on my other saws (200t, ms341), but it seems like more of an art. I used the depth gauge, but found it quite hard to get it right. In the end I just dressed the rakers the same for each tooth, made sure they didn't go too low, then rounded them slightly. I guess I need to do the rakers on this chain too. Yes, I think you're right that the chain is skimming and therefore going over the wood really fast without cutting a great deal. And obviously that's what's generating all the heat and thus the oil burn.

Hopefully the cutting will get easier once we get past the bottom section of the trunks.

thanks for all your tips, people,
Matt

 

[Mad Professor]

My take is that you are cutting hardwood. If you are cutting what I think you are cutting then some would say HARDWOOD. Which mean every two or three cuts you will have to sharpen your chain or more. Semi chisel bit chain is the only thing that will have a chance unless its carbide injected chain that is quite pricey. If you do not know how to sharpen your chain then now is a great time to learn. I use a 6 inch C clamp with a lag bolt welded to it so that I can screw the clamp in the most convenient location to use as a portable vice to hold the bar while I am sharpening. I find that the rakers need to be spot on. If the rakers are too shallow the chain will just skim over the wood cause the cutting edge to get dull really fast. The smoke you are seeing is that of the chain that is getting very hot because it is not cutting. Thanks

"Which mean every two or three cuts you will have to sharpen your chain or more."


WTF? 2-3 cuts? maybe if I'm ripping a 16' log. More like 2-3 tanks of fuel, unless you rock/metal/dirt the chain.

 

[MattG]

"Which mean every two or three cuts you will have to sharpen your chain or more."


WTF? 2-3 cuts? maybe if I'm ripping a 16' log. More like 2-3 tanks of fuel, unless you rock/metal/dirt the chain.

Hi Mad Professor,

I think that in my case, as Ted pointed out, my problem could be that rakers aren't right. This is an area which I have little experience. Also the wood has bits of embedded mud, since my friend who got them for me, ripped the trunks out of the ground with a digger. As I don't have much room to dump all these, I'm trying to process all the wood as best I can!

 

[MattG]

Pics uploaded by wifey!

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Yep, looks like a torture test if they are muddy to boot....

 

[MattG]

Yep, looks like a torture test if they are muddy to boot....

OK, so it's not just me

Gonna try dressing the rakers this PM, and retry. Any tips? Like I said earlier, I didn't get on that well with the depth guage thing.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Straight edge between two teeth & a feeler gauge (.025) is one way....takes plenty of patience though....

 

[rd35]

If you have the raker depth tool, then only use it to gauge the raker height....should be flush with the surface of the tool. If the raker protrudes above the surface, then remove the tool and file the raker a bit, then measure again....trial and error until you have the raker flush with the tool. Don't attempt to file the raker with the tool on the chain....it is not intended to be used that way.

 

[MattG]

Straight edge between two teeth & a feeler gauge (.025) is one way....takes plenty of patience though....

If you have the raker depth tool, then only use it to gauge the raker height....should be flush with the surface of the tool. If the raker protrudes above the surface, then remove the tool and file the raker a bit, then measure again....trial and error until you have the raker flush with the tool. Don't attempt to file the raker with the tool on the chain....it is not intended to be used that way.

Thanks for these hints, guys... To be honest, though, as soon as I got home from work, I went straight back to the yard without logging in to AS.

I measured the rakers with the gauge, and yes you could see their little tips just a bit above the flat surface of tool. I ground them back and keep them roundish. I guess my method was basically like rd35's, but I'll certainly try Duane's way sometime I think. (Before I set the rakers I touched up the cutters again.)

Then I checked the oiler by revving it and pointing at a board. I got roughly a 1/4 inch wide line after several seconds (I also took the chain off later and I could see oil on the links etc.). Then I managed to get 4 decent cuts through the trunk on the blue car ramps. I took it a lot slower, and sometimes stopped mid-cut, and managed to avoid any serious smoke-outs this time.

I think my problems before were the mud and not having rakers right. I also think that my technique was not too good before. I was used to cutting 12-16" oak and ash, and then I could just push the saw through. This wood seems to need a bit more thought!

Anyway, thanks again for the advice. I think that Ted was spot on when he mentioned the rakers