Those 2in1 filing guides are made by Pferd Germany and rebranded with the Stihl logo. Clever tool if your into guides.
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MattG
Guest
Yeah you're right about the price there homeowner. I just wanted to find an example quickly. I'll shop around a bit. We could certainly get one from worldofpower.That price is nothing short of a theft!
Mine is like this, I would of got similar to one on your link, but my local shop did not have such, only these:
https://www.worldofpower.co.uk/husqvarna-5056981-09-combination-gauge-325-1-5mm-h25.html
I don't like that roller guide, not sure if it is my technique or what, but don't like it.
Do you have local shop that sells Husky stuff? I found these two, not sure about postage trough them though, but I think 2-3 pounds from local shop on such tool, tenner from it is quite steep, imo. even with the postage added.
https://www.worldofpower.co.uk/husqvarna-chainsaw-filing-equipment.html
http://www.buyamower.co.uk/product/husqvarna-depth-gauge.aspx
My old depth gauge is similar to this Stihl version, (Price of 1.75 FIM is written on the tool, that is 0.29€, inflation from 70's to these days);
https://www.worldofpower.co.uk/stihl-00008934008-325-depth-gauge.html
Problem with this kind of depth gauge is that it averages out cutters, I believe long part should be kept against the cutters, which leaves raker height high, holding it down so that tool will be on angle, might not be so easy to do consistently enough as 0.1mm is a lot of difference there I believe.
Husky tool clicks on place, slot at the edge of tool goes over chain, near rivet, while shaped slot goes over raker, it also results top of raker being filed to angle, that other type of tool, or then me too have not understood how to use that Stihl kind of dept tool properly, but that is how videos show it being used, so I guess I'm using it right.
Now with Husky tool I indeed filed the top of raker with the tool, then rounded it gently to fin profile, it takes only two or three light passes to get it reasonably fin like.
If your chain gets dull really fast, then it could be that you file it too deeply, or just the sand and dirt on wood you did cut. I doubt that with file guide one could do hawk's peak kind of cutter shape, which can happen if filing without the guide, but it is something to be aware of.
When you put pressure towards ground when filing, file eats itself into chain links and starts to make really sharp feeling beak of the hawk shape cutter, which will dull fast as cutters edge will fail when it touches wood, so when filing without guide one needs to kind of lift the file but at the same time push it gently towards the cutter, or that is what I have undestood.
So if chain runs 3 to 9 when horizontal, force you push file against the cutter might be something in 1 to 2 direction. That is very hard to do when trying to keep file on that 30 degree angle and handle 10 degrees down, while file is biting into cutter so that it stops moving!
With Oregon's filing guide I don't need to think about that aspect, I just keep file horizontal and 30 degrees angle with very mild pressure towards the power unit.
I'm not sure about this, but if chain feels really really sharp on thumb, like a really sharp knife, it might be that it has hawk's beak shape on cutters, I know when I use my cheap grinder, I don't get that sharp feeling chain, but it might be better now that I think about it.
I know that when sharpening axe, it is possible to get really sharp feeling edge, but it will not hold edge as there is so little material supporting the edge.
There is lot to learn for me too, but I guess slowly some understanding of how chain actually works is getting into my teflon coated thick head, until some pro tells that I have got it all wrong once again
And yeah I see what you mean about the stihl gauge. Mine's like the link you attached. Yes I can see that it is probably it not telling the truth since it sits on both cutters. It seems wrong to sell them! It seems that I need a new raker plan - I may even just use feeler gauge and straight edge.
I'm ok at not filing downward too much - I just relax with the guide, and let it help with the angle. Even with my horrid 20" chain I could see nice new sharp metal on the cut face.
Thanks for advice there pal - your tip about the rakers seems to be getting close to my (previous!) problem. And from what I hear from you sound almost like a pro!
Later, Matt
M
MattG
Guest
Thanks PG, but I want to learn how to do it a bit more "old-school"
(You'll probably take me for a masochist!)
PS
I did just look at the tool and it probably is a good idea - I'll see how I get on.
That is the STIHL version of the Pferd tool, that adjusts the depth gauges while filing the cutters. A lot of positive comments on it here on A.S. I tried one recently for the first time and was impressed, especially for folks who want a 'basic sharpening' (my term).
As with all guides, there are some limitations:
- relatively expensive compared to some other file guides;
- need a different one for each pitch chain / file size;
- does not work on skip-tooth chains;
- limits custom angles and depth gauge offsets, etc.
But could be a good way for many. For example, I saw a volunteer storm clean up group using them on shared chain saws, where consistent, basic sharpening was a step up.
Philbert
As with all guides, there are some limitations:
- relatively expensive compared to some other file guides;
- need a different one for each pitch chain / file size;
- does not work on skip-tooth chains;
- limits custom angles and depth gauge offsets, etc.
But could be a good way for many. For example, I saw a volunteer storm clean up group using them on shared chain saws, where consistent, basic sharpening was a step up.
Philbert
Thanks PG, but I want to learn how to do it a bit more "old-school"
(You'll probably take me for a masochist!)
PS
I did just look at the tool and it probably is a good idea - I'll see how I get on.
Old school takes time to learn, I am happy you want to learn that way. I see so many haccked chains come my way from inexperienced filers that I first try to get the filer to get some feel and consistency in their sharpening first. I discovered that many filers were not even looking at the chain when stroking the file back n forth on a cutter, paying no attention to the file angle at all. As far as they were concerned they were making the chain/blade sharper but in a lot of cases this was not what was happening. The glint method is the best way to tell when a chain is really sharp, that corner angle where the top and side plate meet must not have any reflected light /glint, reflecting from it under very bright illumination.
M
MattG
Guest
Yeah, I bet. It's not a skill that comes overnight, I'm sure. And when it comes to sharpening I've got heaps to learn. What I have started to pay more attention to, is looking at each tooth after I think I'm done, and checking that I've touched all the cutting surface.
But that tip about the "glint" is an interesting one and I will check that out soon. My big problem now, is that now those trunks are ringed, I've got a bunch of other jobs to catch back up on... car work, timber staining, the garden, weeding etc. - the story of my life really...
It will get better with each time filing if you pay attention to what you are really doing, it may take longer if you don`t file each day but you will make gains each time if you really want to learn. I need really sharp edges on the woodworking hand tools I use each day, the chisels,plane blades, knives, axes and carving tools all need to be super sharp so I had to develop the skills necessary to make and keep them that way. Making and keeping steel edges super sharp is an art form in my mind and if one is interested enough the skills can be attained over time with just doing it and keeping track of what works best for you.
M
MattG
Guest
Hey Guys,
I just wanted to post an update. I've got enough of my boring domestic jobs done, so I thought that I could start to spend some time, renovating that beat-up 20" chain that upset everyone on the forum so much a month back. I started work using an old file, but it was a helluva lot of work. So I bought some 5mm diamond embedded dremel bits (thanks HuskStihl!), and a bunch of new round files. I even went old school and made a few file handles with the help of an old broom handle and my pedestal drill, and used a youtube tip to fit them.
Then I got under way using the dremel. I used this to get nearly all the metal off in order to lose the roundness on the tips. (Yes you need a real steady hand!). I did this for all teeth to try to keep it uniform, but I plan to measure them later on, to keep them about the same length. This got me a real nice cutting surface back, but I spotted some burring; I carefully dressed this away with a small flat file, and another round file at a kind of reverse angle.
Then set about them with a brand new nice round file to ensure that the angles are still ok. It took a few strokes before I could feel the file fitting in nicely, but using the new file really made the difference. In fact some of the teeth are starting to feel pretty dangerous now!
I still have some more work to do on this, but I think that when I'm done, I reckon that the chain will be almost as good as new. I'll try to get a couple of piccies then and if I'm feeling brave, a clip of it doing what it likes doing best. Anyway I'm glad that as well as learning lots more about these skills, I'm getting something old and knackered working good again.
Matt
Nothing wrong with a 1 - 2 punch: one method to coarsely shape, and another for final edges.
Philbert
Philbert
ArthurB
ArboristSite Member
Chain is clearly rooted
One thing I've sometimes wondered, can you use the little Husky sharpening guide (thing with rollers) on a Stihl chain?
It's been 10 years or more since I had anything to do with Stihls - not sure if the chain is meaningfully different? - if at all?
One thing I've sometimes wondered, can you use the little Husky sharpening guide (thing with rollers) on a Stihl chain?
It's been 10 years or more since I had anything to do with Stihls - not sure if the chain is meaningfully different? - if at all?
. . . .maybe. . . . .
1. Some people have had to file the slots on the bottom of the Husqvarna roller guide to fit over the tie straps on some STIHL chains.
2. The specific geometry of STIHL chains and cutters are likely a bit different from those on Husqvarana (and Oregon - who used to make them) chains, so the exact, resultant angles may be different. These differences may be fussy, theoretical differences, measurable only with precision instruments, versus practical differences, since a number of A.S. members have posted positive results when doing this.
3. Unless you already own the Husqvarna roller guides, maybe also check out the STIHL versions for STIHL chains?
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/fg4rollerguide/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/ff1fileguide/
EDIT: just noted that you are down under. Maybe try the local product?
Philbert
ArthurB
ArboristSite Member
I don't think the Stihl version of the Husky roller guide is available here
Not an issue for me as I'm a Husky user, but it's a great little tool and I've sometimes wondered whether Stihl users here could just adopt it
Not an issue for me as I'm a Husky user, but it's a great little tool and I've sometimes wondered whether Stihl users here could just adopt it
OldJack
ArboristSite Operative
Just a note on the Husqvarna roller guides for .325 chain. The guide for narrow kerf Oregon type 95 chain is 505698108. The guide for standard kerf type 20-21-22 is 505698409. The narrow 08 guide won't fit over the standard type 20 chain.
M
MattG
Guest
A quick question. I had a quick play at filing the worst side, and noticed that one or two teeth are say ~0.5-1.0mm shorter than the bulk of the others (probably were worse rocked). I didn't want to grind all the others down to this length unless I have to. Basically, I just don't want to have to shorten by more than I need. So I wondered:
- What kind of length difference can I get away with? say 0.25-0.5mm? I'm currently clueless on this.
- Or should I just completely remove (grind away) the shortest tooth, and then remove another tooth on the opposite side to match?
thanks
Matt
Some guys don't care if their cutters are different lengths, as long as they are sharp. Their chains will still cut
If all of the cutters (Right and Left sides) are the same length, the chain will cut smoother. Since the top plate of the cutter is angled, a shorter cutter (length) will also be lower in height, and narrower in width. Getting all of the cutters the same would be called 'jointing' (height) and 'seting' (width) with hand saws.
Taller and wider cutters will have to dig into wood that shorter and narrower cutters leave behind. In extreme cases, some shorter or narrower cutters may be 'bridged' by adjacent cutters and not participate in the cut.
So, ideally, you want each of the cutters on a loop to be as close as reasonably possible, but I would not make yourself crazy about this. Saw chain is semi-precision, compared to aircraft machining. I don't have a specific number that I use.
That said, if I have only 1 or 2 cutters that are severely damaged on a loop, I may just file / grind those back, and understand that they will not be used until the rest of the cutters 'catch up' later. It is not worth wasting the rest of the chain, in most cases. In a shop, damaged cutters can be replaced, and filed / ground back to match the others.
Philbert
M
MattG
Guest
Thanks for this, Philbert. Do you mean file back as in remove? Or just as required to get them straight again?
Matt
Well said!!
I don't care if they are the same length on my chains. I sell firewood and do tree work. Maybe on a race chain it would matter. I don't race though.
M
MattG
Guest
I just asked because earlier in the thread people said if the lengths were uneven then cuts could end up being curved. I guess that's just in extreme cases...
Anyway, I'm a beginner with this aspect of things, so happy to keep asking questions and learning
'File back' as in remove damaged areas of a cutter, or to shorten a replacement cutter to the same length as others on the loop.
Philbert
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