Low kickback vs. regular chain

[dwasifar]

Hi guys, looking for some advice. I've been doing my own low-volume firewood processing for about four or five years now, just to keep my fireplace and backyard firepan fed. Figure I'm running through about a cord and a half per year. I have two saws, a 16" and a 20". Both of them are still wearing LK chains.

I try to follow good saw practice - keep an offline cutting stance, wear my protective gear (hard hat, eye protection, steel toe boots, etc), watch where the bar tip is, keep the chains sharp and the saw well adjusted, etc. Typically most of what I do is just bucking and trimming; I don't usually take down trees in the field. Occasionally I have to noodle a tough piece but that's about the extent of it.

I have never used a saw with non-LK chain but I feel like I might be at the experience level where I can try it. I'm a little uncertain. Any pointers besides what I'm already doing?

 

[Efisher26]

A regular chain is just as easy to handle IMO, maybe more chatter but faster cutting if anything


-Efisher26-

 

[bayard]

safe saw handling is how you stay safe. looks like you are on the right track. its not the chain, its the operator..

 

[svk]

Knock on wood never had a problem with non safety chain. If you get careless and start swinging the saw around (especially with a lighter, high revving saw) you are looking for trouble regardless.

And unless you are cutting in really gritty conditions where a semi chisel chain keeps an edge longer, a full chisel chain will cut quite a bit faster.

 

[dwasifar]

Knock on wood never had a problem with non safety chain. If you get careless and start swinging the saw around (especially with a lighter, high revving saw) you are looking for trouble regardless.

And unless you are cutting in really gritty conditions where a semi chisel chain keeps an edge longer, a full chisel chain will cut quite a bit faster.

The faster cuts are what I'm going for. As far as getting careless with tools goes, I learned my lesson when I was a young man, and I still have the scars to prove it. Nowadays I'm Mister By-The-Book when it comes to working safely. If it were otherwise, I wouldn't be asking advice before proceeding.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I bought my first saw when I was 14 and managed to land a nice tree removal job. Some 50 years later the concentration is still as important as ever. I tried some protective gear recently and realized how quickly careless I became. Every time I grab a starter handle the thoughts of a mistake go through my head. My opinion is safety is a habit and it can not be taken for granted. When anybody grabs a tool that is designed to cut material as quick as possible without regard to whether it is a batch of skin or muscle tissue. So it is very important to stay in a comfort zone that is practical for yourself. There are many more issues than just pro chain vs. low kick back chain. A low kickback chain can cause severe injury just as well as a pro chain. What has become a habit for me is to plan every step a few moments ahead of time thinking always what if. Knowing that if a small branch is in the way and it seems like a good idea to cut it out of the way, but it is at a bad angle so red flags go through my head that a new plan needs to surface. What I would do is practice with a saw that you feel very comfortable with all the safety gear you can imagine. As you become more comfortable you will eventually get to the point where you may try a plunge cut. I certainly know how to make a good plunge cut, but usually figure out a way around it because it is far more risky than other cuts. Each person must stay within their safety zone. Injuries does not help get a nice load of firewood into your back yard. Some injuries never heal completely. When you feel that you have mastered a low kick back chain then maybe it is your time to be a bit more aggressive with a pro chain, but ask a experienced wood cutter to assist you for an hour or two before you go marching off by yourself. Thanks

 

[jakethesnake]

For what you are doing if you are cutting dry wood I'd highly recommend a non saftey semi chisel it cuts very fast and stays sharp very long. Chisel tooth is faster yes but the semi is damn near just as fast For me I like the way the edge lasts. Plus if you are just learning to hand file semi is easy as pie. Just a thought... How big a hurry are you honestly in to reach the bottom of a cut? Semi is seriously almost as fast I use a lot of both types of tooth Some green labeled some yellow

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Regular (non-reduced-kickback) chain might be a little faster, but if your otherwise comparing apples to apples (same brand, pitch, cutter shape, etc), the"safety chain" won't be much slower. Honestly, the difference is being able to bore a little better, and it takes much less time to file the rakers down when you need to lower them. That's pretty much it.

So, get a loop and try it. Get a semi chisel, and a full chisel and try them both. Just make sure you're thumb is wrapped around the handlebar and your chain brake works. Also, unless "etc." in your first post includes CHAPS, you should get some of them also.

 

[markintopton]

Filing rakers on "safety" chains can be a royal pita.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Filing rakers on "safety" chains can be a royal pita.

Ain't that the truth! If I need to do it, the saw comes into the shop and i use a dremel or an angle grinder. Makes it a much faster and more pleasant job.

 

[svk]

Filing rakers on "safety" chains can be a royal pita.

Oh yeah!

I came across one of those "tri bumper" chains (thinking it was an old Homelite) in a rummage sale basket. What a pain.

 

[earlthegoat2]

If I'm not plunging, I'm usually using LK. Even then, I have still been able to plunge in a pinch. If I was a firewood cutter (which I am), I see no reason not to use LK unless one absolutely must dabble with something new.

Only recently have I begun using standard chain on a regular basis and that was because I started using a 460 w/ 28" bar and a 661 w/36" bar and LK chain is hard to come by in those lengths if you don't roll your own. It's hard to compare LK chain on a 20" bar from a 361 with standard chain on a 36" 661 so I cannot even go there. Either way, I practice safe chainsaw handling and cutting so the standard chain has never been a problem.

I must be doing it wrong but the rakers on LK chain have never been a problem for me. I usually use a grinder though. Never tried to use a file on them so I assume that is is being referred to.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Yes, it's manually filing that's a pain, just because there's more material to remove.

You're right about long bars, though. It's no comparison. Kickback is much more dangerous on small lightweight saws with short bars and high chain speeds. It's like recoil on a gun. A heavy gun won't kick nearly as bad. Same concept: a kickback event at the end of a long bar has much more inertia to overcome before it poses a threat to the operator. Also, long bars is where chip clearance can be an issue. Regular chain is better for carrying chips out of the kerf.

 

[dwasifar]

Yes, it's manually filing that's a pain, just because there's more material to remove.

You're right about long bars, though. It's no comparison. Kickback is much more dangerous on small lightweight saws with short bars and high chain speeds.

How big a saw would you consider a "small, lightweight saw"?

 

[Philbert]

Sounds like you have a good idea of doing the right stuff. You did not mention chaps - do you use these? A good thing to add if you do not already.

IMHO, most casual users will not notice a significant difference in speed between low-kickback and standard chain, if they are properly sharpened. As noted above, you may notice a bigger difference between different brands of chains, between full-chisel and semi-chisel chains, or by adjusting your sharpening angles. As suggested, get a couple loops of different chains, and try them side-by-side on your saws, in your wood, for the type of cutting you do - see if they makes a difference to you.

Due to the reduced kickback bumpers, low kickback chain may not carry / clear wood chips as well on longer bars (say greater than 20") *if the bars are fully buried in the wood*. Not an issue if you are cutting a 12" log with a 24" bar because the chips do not build up.

Because kickback is usually associated with the upper portion of the bar tip, low kickback chains are specifically designed to not bite deeply there, so these bars and chains do not bore cut as well - they can be used for occasional bore cuts, or not an issue if you don't bore cut. https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/service/kickback.htm

On a positive side, some low kickback chains cut smoother, especially on smaller diameter wood, due to the bumpers. Oregon claims that this was the original intent of the design, and that reduced kickback occurrence was an unexpected side benefit.

Earlier styles of low kickback chains had bumper tie straps, which accentuated some of the problems, noted above. Newer styles have bumper drive links, which align better with the depth gauges, and are less of a problem. I have seen people win races with low kickback chains ( . . . wait for it . . . . ) due to their technique, over guys with 'standard' chains.

Philbert

 

[Ryan'smilling]

How big a saw would you consider a "small, lightweight saw"?

I guess I should have said "smaller, lighter weight saws". Kickback can still be dangerous on a heavy saw, but again, like guns, the lighter the weight of the saw, the easier it is for that kickback force to put the spinny and sharp part of a chainsaw close to a guy's face.

In answer to your question, though, I consider all my saws smaller than my ns460 to be my small, lightweight saws. That includes an 036, a Shindaiwa 488, and a Dolmar 421. I do, however use caution to avoid kickback no matter the saw I'm using. I also hold the handlebar correctly (wrap that thumb around), and wear PPE to protect myself against unforeseen accidents.

 

[RiesePING]

Above all else, a properly working chain brake and your grip on the saw is always your last line of defense when it comes to a chain injury.

For me, the LK chains cause more unsafe situations only because I'm not familiar with them and don't know exactly what the chain will do in every situation. I only use Stihl RS and have enough experience with it that I can be 99% sure I know how it will react. It's always important to leave that extra 1% for respect to the chain and how much damage it can do if I get cocky.

But anyways, I'd say if you have all the PPE and aren't careless (which sounds like you're good there) go ahead and get the pro chain. Any chain comes down to precision filing regardless. I freakin love filing chains, it's like an art form to me.

 

[Philbert]

For me, the LK chains cause more unsafe situations only because I'm not familiar with them and don't know exactly what the chain will do in every situation.

Sorry. This is not the kind of statement that I can let stand without a response.

A reduced kickback chain may not perform exactly as the chains you are familiar with, but they are not more hazardous, more risky, or less safe. And if you try to construct a situation where a tenth of a second faster cutting lets you run from an unstable tree faster, you are not working safely to begin with.

Philbert

 

[RiesePING]

Sorry. This is not the kind of statement that I can let stand without a response.

It is like the classic, "I think that seat belts are MORE dangerous because I rather get thrown free then burning up in a wreck" type nonsense. Or, "I think that chaps, helmets, and other PPE is MORE hazardous because it makes the user careless".

A reduced kickback chain may not perform exactly as the chains you are familiar with, but they are not more hazardous, more risky, or less safe. And if you try to construct a situation where a tenth of a second faster cutting lets you run from an unstable tree faster, you are not working safely to begin with.

Philbert

I think you're taking my wording the wrong way. I started the sentence off with "For me", meaning this only pertains to me and my preferences. I totally agree with everything you wrote and think safety chains are a great thing for the people who need/want them. All I was trying to get across was that familiarity and having experience with something is usually more safe. I don't have much experience with safety chains so for me a full chisel chain is more predictable. I think we're on the same side of the fence here Philbert.

 

[Philbert]

We get a lot of contrary comments posted here about how things like chaps are 'actually less safe' because (according to the poster) they make the user careless, etc. So I had to respond.

A lot of guys don't like the older versions of reduced kickback chains, or have biases against it. A lot of guys have personal preferences.

Again, you may be most comfortable with the chains that you are most familiar with, but I still disagree that using a low kickback chain would, in any practical manner, place you in 'more unsafe conditions'.

Philbert