So what's the current Two stroke oil favorite for

[jakethesnake]

My thoughts exactly. It's not very telling, especially not knowing the variables. What saws were used? Was it a true non bias test? How exact were the ratios? New or used engines? If used, how many hours on each engine? Was ALL the previous mix completely drained and ran out?
Lots of questions for sure. Like you, I began using Stihl oil when I bought my new 460 many years ago. I figured based on the warranty it couldn't be a bad oil, the saw is now pushing 15 years on Stihl oil with no teardown. I've got a few newer saws with more hours, same results. But I am just a homeowner and only cut 12-15 cords a year plus clean up and the occasional favor for a friend or family member.

The tests were pretty good tests. There’s always variables. Temperatures were even listed. Mixes were exact. Pictures of the tear downs were pretty obvious.

15 cords a year is a prettty good bit of work. I’ll just say there’s lots of better options out there. The tests were done for fun by a chainsaw nut.
My hatred for silver bottle stihl just comes from the years of picture results. Carbon build up. Stuck rings.
Hell if you run the saw hot enough it may burn the excess carbon up anyhow.
It’s certainly not the best available. I wish stihl would make a better blend
The forum guys that have been around a while all hate it.

there’s my sources and basically all the input I’ve got on the subject.
there’s plenty of better air cooled oils out there.

 

[jakethesnake]

Listen to @huskihl This is one of the guys I legit trust. He knows more about saws than most. Good brother to know

 

[JRM]

I’ve ported saws for 7-8 years now, hoping to have enough to do it full time this year. So I dig into about 150 saws per year. Here’s what I’ve learned. Folks who run Ultra at 50:1 have “relatively “ clean pistons and cylinders. But on the newer strato saws there is no excess oil anywhere. The bottom end bearings are dry. Even the crank journals are dry to the touch. This would indicate the need for more oil. If you run it at 32:1, the bottom end is still marginally lubricated, but carbon buildup is everywhere. This buildup shows evidence of flaking off also. I’ve seen this flaking cause smearing on the piston when a chunk gets caught at the top of the exhaust port. It builds carbon because it’s an fb rated oil. FC and FD rated oils have detergent in them and some will actually run cleaner with more oil in the mix. The difference in both the amount of carbon formed and residual oil left behind between Stihl Ultra and Red Armor is staggering.

Thank you for your input.
You mention the strato saws and the dry appearance of the internals, what kind of problems are showing up from people that stick to the recommended mixture?

 

[JRM]

The tests were pretty good tests. There’s always variables. Temperatures were even listed. Mixes were exact. Pictures of the tear downs were pretty obvious.

15 cords a year is a prettty good bit of work. I’ll just say there’s lots of better options out there. The tests were done for fun by a chainsaw nut.
My hatred for silver bottle stihl just comes from the years of picture results. Carbon build up. Stuck rings.
Hell if you run the saw hot enough it may burn the excess carbon up anyhow.
It’s certainly not the best available. I wish stihl would make a better blend
The forum guys that have been around a while all hate it.

there’s my sources and basically all the input I’ve got on the subject.
there’s plenty of better air cooled oils out there.

It seems like it but I know people that cut even more.... I cut for our home 8-10 chords, the extra is for an elderly couple down the road that are on fixed income and have no choice but to heat with wood. I give them the good neighbor discount
I live close to a state park and have also sold a little during the summer. Actually the kids sell it and pocket the money, a little kickback for all the free work they do around here

 

[jakethesnake]

If bearings are running dry. They aren’t as lubricated as you’d like to see. So you’ll be wearing more. Which would likely cause failure to be premature.

I found this to be the case with Lucas oil at 40:1. The bearings wore until there was enough play for the piston to tap the cylinder roof.
Ideally you’d like to see moist bearings when you open a saw

 

[jakethesnake]

It seems like it but I know people that cut even more.... I cut for our home 8-10 chords, the extra is for an elderly couple down the road that are on fixed income and have no choice but to heat with wood. I give them the good neighbor discount
I live close to a state park and have also sold a little during the summer. Actually the kids sell it and pocket the money, a little kickback for all the free work they do around here

Love it lol. Good lookin out for those old folks.
I sold wood as a kid too. Same idea. Good deal!

 

[huskihl]

Thank you for your input.
You mention the strato saws and the dry appearance of the internals, what kind of problems are showing up from people that stick to the recommended mixture?

Bearings and cranks need replaced more often, but it’s not common. Stihl bearings appear to be pretty well made.

 

[Reesedlightning]

Bearings and cranks need replaced more often, but it’s not common. Stihl bearings appear to be pretty well made.

Agreed. If I can, I always try to keep the Stihl oem bearings over am for that reason.

I had no idea about Stihl oil until I got my 064 ported by Rattler. Before he sent the saw back to me he told me, no Stihl or husky oil. Burns dirty. He recommended red armor, yamalube, or motul and run at 40:1. Followed the man’s directions and all my saws have been running cleaner it seems.

 

[JRM]

Well now I'm down the rabbit hole. Never researched 2 cycle oil, this could be dangerous. What to make of this test? I am always suspicious of a test that is not either blind or 3rd party. Would such a company put their reputation on the line by skewing results? I'd like to think not.....

Edit....link fixed

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...sQFnoECDcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3vu_hI0pR7XThK76sFoR0r

 

[huskihl]

Well now I'm down the rabbit hole. Never researched 2 cycle oil, this could be dangerous. What to make of this test? I am always suspicious of a test that is not either blind or 3rd party. Would such a company put their reputation on the line by skewing results? I'd like to think not.....

Edit....link fixed

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...sQFnoECDcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3vu_hI0pR7XThK76sFoR0r

It was designed to run in their 4 stroke 4 mix engine. It should be a good oil for that.

 

[JRM]

Also, trying to understand the significance of only being JASO FB rated. According to JASO website,

• FB corresponds to high lubricity performance but without any low-smoke technology.
• FC meets the FB lubricity standards but also is a low-smoke lubricant.
• FD corresponds to higher detergency properties than the other two grades, meets the lubricity requirements and has low smoke requirements.

The low smoke requirement is self explanatory but not a performance indicator of the oil as far as the saw is concerned, which leaves the higher requirements of detergency to combat carbon buildup as the main difference between FB and FD?

Is it possible that Stihl simply has not paid for the new certification of the JASO spec? I know this has happened in the past with certain oils like Amsoil and Schaeffers. Schaeffer finally began carrying the CK4 on their 5w40 diesel engine oil even though they passed the tests 2 or 3 years ago. API licensing is expensive, especially for smaller companies.

Thanks to all for your input, it is appreciated.

 

[jakethesnake]

It was designed to run in their 4 stroke 4 mix engine. It should be a good oil for that.

Probably a good choice for say a stihl blower
But maybe not so much for a saw?

 

[BerkshirePaws]

Well now I'm down the rabbit hole. Never researched 2 cycle oil, this could be dangerous. What to make of this test? I am always suspicious of a test that is not either blind or 3rd party. Would such a company put their reputation on the line by skewing results? I'd like to think not.....

I don’t know if a company like Stihl would fake the results but would certainly pick the conditions of the test the most favor their product. One thing I notice is the oils they tested against. Where any of the more popular oils mentioned in this thread represented? Again, running WOT 24/7 for 500 hrs is not any kind of real world test. Limit tests are ok for systems with one variable but most systems have multiple variables. “Gee, ran this oil at 10:1 and 200:1 and it was no good.” It is interesting that some oil seemed to work for so long. At 200:1. Observations by someone like huskihl are probably as good as we are going to see in this forum.

 

[huskihl]

Also, trying to understand the significance of only being JASO FB rated. According to JASO website,



The low smoke requirement is self explanatory but not a performance indicator of the oil as far as the saw is concerned, which leaves the higher requirements of detergency to combat carbon buildup as the main difference between FB and FD?

Is it possible that Stihl simply has not paid for the new certification of the JASO spec? I know this has happened in the past with certain oils like Amsoil and Schaeffers. Schaeffer finally began carrying the CK4 on their 5w40 diesel engine oil even though they passed the tests 2 or 3 years ago. API licensing is expensive, especially for smaller companies.

Thanks to all for your input, it is appreciated.

Detergents are the main difference between b and d. I believe they did have it tested and it met fb.

 

[JRM]

Where any of the more popular oils mentioned in this thread represented?

Two that stand out are the lower tier Stihl, which is better than the Ultra according to some, and Amsoil.

Observations by someone like huskihl are probably as good as we are going to see in this forum.

His perspective has been appreciated. Working on saws for a living certainly gives one a large data point in some ways, maybe not so much in others. I can only imagine the wonky crap people bring in, mixtures from one end of the spectrum to the next thinking they know better than the manufacturer, low octane ethanol gas sitting in the tank for lord knows how long, crap plugs or the wrong gap, or both, plugged air filters, and on and on. I'm sure the list is extensive. Lots of variables for sure that will lead to a saws demise.

 

[North by Northwest]

The latest Evinrude TCW3 and Yamaha TCW3 oils both work well in lawnboys. As does Penzoil syn tcw3.

Yeah pretty well any TCW-3 product does well in the old Lawnboys , outboard motor oil has always been a favorite of OMC products! lol.

 

[North by Northwest]

To be clear are you disputing the combustion of Ethanol doesn't for form aldahydes? Because it's a absolute fact that it indeed does.

Either of you guys babble on ethanol related health related issues are a mute point unless you operate your chainsaw within a telephone booth , can you provide some more prevelent ethanol fuel related dialogue....sheesh !

 

[North by Northwest]

Sources?

It stinks & causes sponge according to Mr Walker . Actually was designed for 4-Mix units , not chainsaws ! Watch your mix & it performs adequately for most applications @ 44:1 , but does have a distinct odor . Not my choice if preference !

 

[North by Northwest]

Honestly run whatever you like. It was torture tested at 300:1. Along with a crap ton of other oils. The orange bottle stihl did far better than the silver. I listed the worst performances. Those are 3 I’d not use.

I’m not the only one on this thread that saw it. Some builders of ported saws including some at this website switched to the amsoil dominater.

because of egg shooters test….
I’ll switch myself when I run out of oil again.

dead serious just trying to help.

Interceptor is a much better overall product within saw usage or Saber . Dominator is a MX or Extreme Snowmobile performance oil . Excellent stuff , but you better have your tuning spot on or deposits will become an issue since it may not completely burn off in the fuel charge . P.S. I have used Dominator successfully in my ported 357 xp & ported ms660 Milling saw both which reach sufficient cylinder head temps @ 44:1 & 40:1 respectively to burn clean without any residue or very little carbon issues !

 

[North by Northwest]

If bearings are running dry. They aren’t as lubricated as you’d like to see. So you’ll be wearing more. Which would likely cause failure to be premature.

I found this to be the case with Lucas oil at 40:1. The bearings wore until there was enough play for the piston to tap the cylinder roof.
Ideally you’d like to see moist bearings when you open a saw

A little pooling is Optimium within the crankcase !