Milling in the woodlot

[HandLogger]

Howdy!

I've spent several years on another forum, so I'm pretty excited to discover this one for the first time. :jester:

Where to begin ... well, I'd like to hear from folks who've discovered alternatives to milling timber with all those expensive mills out there. Although I've certainly got quite a bit of my own timber to consider, I do not see myself becoming a professional sawyer.

I am, however, planning to mill the beams and dimensional lumber required for a timber frame home. Although the hard plans have not been drawn yet, I've got enough experience to surmise that the maximum dimensions of any timbers in the frame will be around 8" x 10" x 22.' I do realize that milling timber is a difficult proposition, and that hydraulics are a fantastic feature to this end, but I'm not in a position where my material has to be milled yesterday. That being written, I'd like to hear from some members who've freed straight beams and lumber out logs without investing their life's savings into it.

By the way, the frame design will more than likely incorporate splined joinery, so most of the large beams will come from softwood saw logs: EWP and Eastern Hemlock.

Any thoughts (and any photos) welcome ...

 

[camojeep]

welcome to as lots of good info here

 

[MJR]

Welcome neighbor, a while back there was a post here by BMAN. He made a beautiful post and beam house. Do a search for post and beam and I am sure you will find it. It might give you some ideas. I can’t give much advice on mills. I started out with a CSM, now have a small band mill, and have evil thoughts of going bigger…. Best of luck.

 

[irishcountry]

cool

Timberframe or post and beam homes IMHO are some of the most beautiful homes that are built!! Good luck with your projects would love to see pics! Someday I would like to do the same but I still have to get setup with a chainsaw mill i've not had much freetime since spring and now going to start a late season remodeling of our second floor so maybe next year. This is a great place to just keep checking posts and collecting info there are many creative knowlegable people on this forum and most check frequently and can answer question quickly or at least point you in the right direction. Again good luck.

 

[MJR]

Mistake, I got side tracked at work. The tread should be under timber frame house. OPPS.

 

[woodshop]

Welcome to the forum handlogger, I did get your IM and would love to discuss milling options. Just know that there are more options out there now than ever... Logosol type mills that use bar and chain... all sizes of bandmills including my little chainsaw powered Ripsaw, and of course swing mills. What is right for one won't fit anothers circumstances, so you need to define exactly what you want this mill to do, and just how portable it has to be. You already started to do that, good start.

...ask lots of questions

 

[Ianab]

Swingblade mills

The cost is considerably less then a hydralic bandmill, true the mill is all manual, but you dont need to move the log at all. Removing the boards and beams is the only hard work.

Portablilty is good, if you can get a quadbike and trailer to the logs then you can get the mill there.

Yes a chainsaw mill could do what you want, would be the cheapest option of course, but it depends how hard you want to work and how many beams you want to cut.

As well as the beams there is probably lots of dimension lumber to recover while you are slicing out the beam. Thats what the swingblades are good at.

Different mills have different strong points. Chainsaw mills are cheaper and very portable, but slower, harder work and lower recovery. Swingmills are medium cost, fast sawing and pretty portable. They do best on big logs, you can cut small ones of course, but so can any bandsaw. Bandsaws work better on what we call small logs, under 30". Trailer mounted is pretty portable, but they are still a big machine so you need good access to move them to a site. Not as practical to saw logs where they lay in the woods.

You also need to work out how you are going to operate, what machinery you will need if you want to move logs etc.

Cheers

Ian

 

[HandLogger]

Cheers!

Thanks very much for the posts so far!

Camo: Thanks for the welcome. I'm looking forward to it.

MJR: Thanks for turning me on to the BMAN info. I'll look into it as soon as I can.

Irish: We've been working on getting started since the beginning of the year. It's very slow goin,' but we're getting closer every day. Pictures forthcoming.

Woodshop: As I've already explained, you're the guy that brought me to this forum in the first place. Looking forward to corresponding with you more.

Ian: I've read some of your posts before (on another venue)... Another useful post -- as always, mate!

PLEASE keep 'em coming. Cheers!

 

[TedChristiansen]

For cutting beams, the Logosol M7 is a pretty good solution. Their demo DVD shows a guy who built a dutch barn with an M5 (M7 predecessor). I believe there are some on this forum who are building or have built timberframe houses and cut the beams on an M7.

I have the TimberJig and Woodworkers Mill with Husky 385XP and have been happy with them - both to make rough cut boards for my own use.

Regards,

Ted

 

[cantcutter]

How much does a swingblade cost in other parts of the world? Here in the USA you can buy a really nice hydraulic band mill for less than a lucas or a Peterson. The swing blades are nice mills and have their upsides, but they would not make a good mill for timberframe. I would vote for a mobile demensions 128 for the best mill for sawing timbers. But cost puts it out of reach of the do it your self crowd. Jonsered has a nice little chainsaw mill that would save the back and get the job done.

 

[Ianab]

An 8" cut Peterson will start around $15,000 , depends on what options you get with it of course. Thats in NZ$, I think it will be similar in $US, the exchange rate gain pays for the freight. You can spend $30,000+ on a swingblade, but that gets you a fully auto beast of a machine.

A Woodmizer lt40SuperHD is about $30,000 US, probably cost about $60,000 in NZ :help: Of course it's easier for you guys to pick up decent secondhand bandmills so that might be an option too.

Swingblade pretty much works the same as a MD mill, except its easier to cut oversize beams on the swingblade. I can saw out a 16"x8" on my mill by 'double cutting'.

Main reason I suggest the swingblade is the original poster is thinking of sawing the logs in the woods instead of skidding them out. Thats what swingblades are designed for

Cheers

Ian

 

[cantcutter]

Yes but he still has to move the beams out of the woods and to the house site and it is better to do that in log form than screw up a milled beam in transit. MB can cut a 12x8 in one pass. I priced some swing blade mills before I bought my band mill. The 6 inch model is too limited in what it can cut imo and its the only one that can be touched for 8000.00 US. If you want the slabber your talking another 6000.00. All of the bandmill brands have new mills in the 4000.00 to 10.000 range.

 

[HandLogger]

Great points!

Ted: I've definitely considered the Logo, but I'm concerned about its ability to handle heavy species. Although the majority of our beams will come from EWP and Eastern Hemlock, we will also be milling some Red Oak beams (for outside posts mostly). I'd hate to spend our hard-earned on any type of mill, and find out that you're limited as to which logs you can cut.

Cant and Ian: Interesting discussion you've got going. Love hearing different points of view from those that obviously have the experience and the know how.

Please keep it coming ...

 

[Matildasmate]

Logosol

Ted: I've definitely considered the Logo, but I'm concerned about its ability to handle heavy species. Although the majority of our beams will come from EWP and Eastern Hemlock, we will also be milling some Red Oak beams (for outside posts mostly). I'd hate to spend our hard-earned on any type of mill, and find out that you're limited as to which logs you can cut.

Cant and Ian: Interesting discussion you've got going. Love hearing different points of view from those that obviously have the experience and the know how.

Please keep it coming ...

Guday mate ....... I Built myself a Logasol type sawmill , mainly out of used steel I had laying around in my shed . Sadly , after watching the Logosol dvd about 30 or more times and every now and then still watching it , I was less than impressed with their dvd , mainly because of the stuff they leave out , for obvious reasons . For starters they only use more or less straight logs in the demo , for all logs and especially bent logs I use a ladder with ply screwed to the ladder for support , also without support when slab gets thin stars to bow without support , which they don't show either. Mine is built like a tank but still only weighs about 150-200kgs (if I need to move it I just use my Ute crane), it also has a backing board of sheet ply to stop knobs or lumps blocking the saw path as the saw passes , my set up can handle 800mm logs currently (need to get a longer bar and build a new support for it) , another thing they don't show you is , how much the bar bends , once you go over 24" it has to be supported , unless you like banana boards . There is lots of other little things too . Backing board is also great for support when using centre support for edging timber. Regards MM

 

[cantcutter]

Cant and Ian: Interesting discussion you've got going. Love hearing different points of view from those that obviously have the experience and the know how.

I don't have the experience, but thanks for the vote of confidence I have owned my timberking 1600 for one week as of today I did do alot of research before I bought a mill and really wanted a Mobile demensions, but could not afford it and I got a really good deal on my bandmill. I think the swingblades are an awsome mill, but not really practical. Its a great concept if you want to saw 2x6s, or 8s if you buy the 8" model, but I don't like that you have to double cut in order to get anything larger out of them. You should look at the mill jonsered has on their site. its much like the one in the above pics only you don't build it yourself. There are other simular chainsaw mills out there and I think any of them would be a great place to start....With most of them you are not limited by lenght like you are with bandmills.... I think if you want to mill at the landing sight of the tree they are really your only option.

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Man, what a bummer! Ya send off to get thier DVD, copy the design, cut them out and then all this talk.
Oh, and looking at all the sawdust around the mill, I'd say it must work pretty good. And did ya know, Logosol doesn't sell a bar over 24". Ya think maybe you might have hit on the reason why? And do you really think that nobody else "leaves out" stuff on thier DVD's.
Maybe you should just sue the clowns.

Rodney

 

[TedChristiansen]

Ted: I've definitely considered the Logo, but I'm concerned about its ability to handle heavy species. Although the majority of our beams will come from EWP and Eastern Hemlock, we will also be milling some Red Oak beams (for outside posts mostly). I'd hate to spend our hard-earned on any type of mill, and find out that you're limited as to which logs you can cut.

Please keep it coming ...

The Logosol M7 and Woodworkers Mill can both cut logs that are too heavy to put on the mill. You can cut large logs into smaller more manageable slabs by either milling inverted (mill upside down on top of the log), or with the mill on its side (chainsaw bar would be vertical).

I think the cost and ease of use make it a good choice. I looked at the Jonsered mill as well. It was too expensive for what it did, particularly when compared to the ProCut mill which you can build yourself (http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/).

Yes the bar is unsupported on the tip end. This only makes a difference on bars over 24". Methods of support can be devised and built. I don't see this as a design flaw. The beauty of the design is two fold:

1. No pushing the saw through the log
2. Easy log levelling using the cranks

Regards,

Ted

 

[Matildasmate]

ProCut

The Logosol M7 and Woodworkers Mill can both cut logs that are too heavy to put on the mill. You can cut large logs into smaller more manageable slabs by either milling inverted (mill upside down on top of the log), or with the mill on its side (chainsaw bar would be vertical).

I think the cost and ease of use make it a good choice. I looked at the Jonsered mill as well. It was too expensive for what it did, particularly when compared to the ProCut mill which you can build yourself (http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/).

Yes the bar is unsupported on the tip end. This only makes a difference on bars over 24". Methods of support can be devised and built. I don't see this as a design flaw. The beauty of the design is two fold:

1. No pushing the saw through the log
2. Easy log levelling using the cranks

Regards,

Ted

Hi Mate Had a look at the ProCut setup , pretty good and still no bending over . I think if I was going to go to all the trouble (although this would be fun) of building a chainsawmill that looks like a bandsawmill , I would build a bandsawmill though . I can cut basically any length of log I want on my setup , my mill is only about 3m long , but I have a set of conveyor rollers (I got cheap 2 chains) that I can use to cut any length log . Regards MM As for all the upside downing with the m7 and inverting , I think it would be smarter on the big logs , just to use a csm style , Aggiewoodbutchr , Woodshop , Dustytools , BobL too many others too mention , way to go boys , Have a look at BobL BiL mill .

 

[HandLogger]

Once again, great points!

MM: Thanks very much for the extremely helpful information and the great photos. Seems to me, this is what a venue like this one is all about!

Cant: What are you milling goals? Why did you like the Mobile Dimension Saw so much? I was actually fortunate enough to spend some time using a Peterson, but the diameter of the blade seems to be a limiting factor -- given what our goals are. Oh, yeah ... and it's not a cheap mill by any means (for the private user, anyway).

Rodney: I'm assuming that you use the Logosol mill? Have you cut beams in the 8" x 10" x 22' range with it? I'd love to hear more from you if you have.

Ted: Once again, great post! It seems that the Logosol M7 might warrant some further investigation. I have received information from them in the past, including their video, but the spec's of the mill are what have made me a bit leery. Thanks very much for the info on the Procut plans as well.

Thanks very much again

 

[Matildasmate]

Tire bandsawmill the way to go

MM: Thanks very much for the extremely helpful information and the great photos. Seems to me, this is what a venue like this one is all about!

Cant: What are you milling goals? Why did you like the Mobile Dimension Saw so much? I was actually fortunate enough to spend some time using a Peterson, but the diameter of the blade seems to be a limiting factor -- given what our goals are. Oh, yeah ... and it's not a cheap mill by any means (for the private user, anyway).

Rodney: I'm assuming that you use the Logosol mill? Have you cut beams in the 8" x 10" x 22' range with it? I'd love to hear more from you if you have.

Ted: Once again, great post! It seems that the Logosol M7 might warrant some further investigation. I have received information from them in the past, including their video, but the spec's of the mill are what have made me a bit leery. Thanks very much for the info on the Procut plans as well.

Thanks very much again

Hi Handlogger If you can afford to and are capable of building a bandsaw mill thats what I would have , especially if you have lots of timber to cut and the time factor is a problem , heaps faster than any csm , but a little more expensive , lot of blokes on this site have built tire bandsawmills , my mill is only a toy for me to play around with .