M-Tronic Problems Solved?

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

The only time I've had issues with Mtronic the following:

1. Cutting off the saw too quickly after a long cut - This will sometimes create a no-start or hard start issue but eventually it starts up.
2. Running the saw out of fuel in a along cut - Again, causes no start or hard start issue.

That's it. Now that I know to idle the saw for a bit after a long cut and to stop the saw and re-fuel at the first hint of low fuel. I've not had a no-start or hard start scenario in years. I've run the saw at -25ºF up to 100ºF. I gave my uncle these same tips when he bought his first Mtronic saw and he's never had a hard start issue. He heats almost 5000sqft with an outdoor boiler and goes through a LOT of mix in a year. His saw stays in the uninsulated shed and even after a few -30ºF nights it started just fine.

 

[bwalker]

I imagine issues are more rare in moderate climates.

anybody can build a machine that works well when never subjected to hellish conditions.

I have ran my 400C in twmps from 100 degrees to -20 farenheight. And at elevations from 3500' to 9500'. Never misses a beat.
Many cold weather issues are caused by water in the fuel IME.

 

[bwalker]

I was just in the market for a new saw. I have been running saws for over 28 years, I can listen to a saw and know what it needs or what could be wrong. I went looking for a new saw and everyone was trying to sell me on this Mtronic system. One I do not see really how much time this system really saves you. I just reach into my back pocket to grab the screwdriver and problem solved. It's not like I had to adjust my saw every other minute. Each engine has its own personality, you learn it's quirks pretty quickly. You learn how to start it cold and how to start it hot and other things to keep it running. As far as a computer in a saw that controls gas to control power, it's a chainsaw, you cut with full power, for over 100 years saws ran at full power without a computer. The main thing I was worried about is this system set up to run the saw on the edge of too lean in order to meet EPA requirements. I do not know about any of you folks but I have always run my saw a little heavy on oil to make sure the piston and rings and bearings are properly lubricated. Spark plugs are still cheap and easier to replace then the internals. I was also afraid that the Mtronic system would flip out with the little bit extra oil I add to the mix. I was looking at the MS462, everyone wanted me to buy the MS462C-M. I knew that the 462 came in a tried-and-true carburetor, that's what I wanted but the salespeople were not hearing me I guess. Until I went to a small local shop. They watched me look at the saws and after 5 minutes asked me if I needed help, I told him what I wanted and 15 Minutes later I was walking out the door with the old school MS462. He kept the carburetor models in the back.

A properly tuned saw shoukd be set just on the edge of lean...
And Mtronic doesn't care what oil ratio you use. I run mine at 32:1 and I had a 562xp with Autotune that I tested 24:1 on and it ran just fine.

 

[Captain Bruce]

If you live where it gets cold, or hot, they still have trouble. Lots. LOTS of guys having trouble on the job this past winter. Still.

crews of about 30-50 sawhands on each project. Almost every day several no-starts. That's why each guy has to have several saws in the truck. Used to be one. Then it became for sure two. Now it's several.

most of those guys hatem' , as they lose money every hour they **** with saws. They do not make life easier whatsoever.

it is not insignificant in harsh climates.

Fact. Not fear mongering.

Get off your wallet. Hire a mechanic, and buy carb saws. He'll keep 1 saw per man running forever.
You make your point sound like this is a long exercise? Why buy another M-Tronic once you see a pattern of problems???

Your local dealer is low on stock??

 

[LuDookie]

One thing I’ve learned from cutting with people, “pro’s “ and “ranchers”, is most guys aren’t well equipped at tuning or working on a chainsaw. Things like Autotune and M Tronic are definitely going to be the answer to the newer generations anyway, if they can even manage to hold the saw by the right end.

I just like carbed saws because I can work on them 100%, and I’ve zero interest in having someone else work on them. I’ve owned 3 Autotune saws. 2 out of 3 were good.

I’ve never had a problem with a saw that wasn’t fuel/air ratio related, other than physical damage.

 

[bwalker]

One thing I’ve learned from cutting with people, “pro’s “ and “ranchers”, is most guys aren’t well equipped at tuning or working on a chainsaw. Things like Autotune and M Tronic are definitely going to be the answer to the newer generations anyway, if they can even manage to hold the saw by the right end.

I just like carbed saws because I can work on them 100%, and I’ve zero interest in having someone else work on them. I’ve owned 3 Autotune saws. 2 out of 3 were good.

I’ve never had a problem with a saw that wasn’t fuel/air ratio related, other than physical damage.

Mtronic is a working harness and a solenoid...everything else is the same.
And your right. Most guys can't tune a saw tonsave their lives, which is why Mtronic is a good thing.

 

[LuDookie]

Mtronic is a working harness and a solenoid...everything else is the same.
And your right. Most guys can't tune a saw tonsave their lives, which is why Mtronic is a good thing.

You’re right, some people don’t want to fool with it. Some have no business.

I want to fool with it.

I can correct fuel air issues in the field easily on my saws that aren’t M Tronic. Otherwise, I can’t. This is a fact.

 

[lone wolf]

You’re right, some people don’t want to fool with it. Some have no business.

I want to fool with it.

I can correct fuel air issues in the field easily on my saws that aren’t M Tronic. Otherwise, I can’t. This is a fact.

I have lots of both old School and Mtron ,so the trick is to have backup when you make a living with them. The new saws sure have nice anti vibe and are my first choice.

 

[holeycow]

Better ergonomics and antivibe are the only improvements made to powersaws in the last 30 years. And maybe not even ergonomics.

yup, backup.

 

[lone wolf]

Better ergonomics and antivibe are the only improvements made to powersaws in the last 30 years. And maybe not even ergonomics.

yup, backup.

Well, climbing saws are light years ahead, I was climbing with an XL2 back in the 70's. I don't remember it having a chain brake or a shut-off switch in easy fast reach by your thumb. That stupid saw was a nose heavy hunk of junk.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Yeah, I was using a Homelite 7-19C . Don't particularly want to go back there.

 

[lone wolf]

Yeah, I was using a Homelite 7-19C . Don't particularly want to go back there.

I still have Carpal tunnel from those Homelite's.

 

[LuDookie]

People often mention how simple M-Tronic is. In some ways, it is simple, and most modern engines do have some type of electronically controlled fuel delivery. It’s become very reliable.

But “simple” deserves some prospective here. Without educating myself in exactly how M-tronic works, that wiring harness has to perform tasks beyond just existing. There has to be some sort of I/0 signal or feedback loop getting received and sent ( based on rpm’s most likely) which would tie into the coil. That output would then control a solenoid through some type of driver to adjust a valve ( hopefully a fairly static one) delivering fuel. As someone who works with electronics, I see several “ invisible “ potential points of failure.

Like a TV remote, it’s very simple and reliable, but aside from batteries, if it malfunctions, I’m not going to troubleshoot it.

I’m not afraid of M-Tronic. I just don’t need it, or want it.

I would definitely recommend it to most others though.

 

[LuDookie]

I have lots of both old School and Mtron ,so the trick is to have backup when you make a living with them. The new saws sure have nice anti vibe and are my first choice.

I get it. If I were making my living that way or having a crew run saws that I own, I would most likely change my MO.

 

[bwalker]

People often mention how simple M-Tronic is. In some ways, it is simple, and most modern engines do have some type of electronically controlled fuel delivery. It’s become very reliable.

But “simple” deserves some prospective here. Without educating myself in exactly how M-tronic works, that wiring harness has to perform tasks beyond just existing. There has to be some sort of I/0 signal or feedback loop getting received and sent ( based on rpm’s most likely) which would tie into the coil. That output would then control a solenoid through some type of driver to adjust a valve ( hopefully a fairly static one) delivering fuel. As someone who works with electronics, I see several “ invisible “ potential points of failure.

Like a TV remote, it’s very simple and reliable, but aside from batteries, if it malfunctions, I’m not going to troubleshoot it.

I’m not afraid of M-Tronic. I just don’t need it, or want it.

I would definitely recommend it to most others though.

Going back to the beginning of Mtronic the two most common failures are the solenoid first and the wiring harness second. The solenoid has went through 3 revisions and a fourth is in the works. The failure mode of the solenoid from what I gather is dirt related. As a result the tank filter has been upgraded from 30 to 15 micron.

 

[bwalker]

Better ergonomics and antivibe are the only improvements made to powersaws in the last 30 years. And maybe not even ergonomics.

yup, backup.

HP, fuel economy also.

 

[LuDookie]

I just took a gander at some Stihl literature… forgot about the microprocessor that is involved and also temperature sensing. Not to mention the hour meter and start counter, not that these things are prone to failure. I’m not saying that.

So what might look like a few extra wires and a little black module on the carb has quite a few little things going on. Not so simple compared to a couple of adjustable jets and magneto coil.

 

[LuDookie]

Going back to the beginning of Mtronic the two most common failures are the solenoid first and the wiring harness second. The solenoid has went through 3 revisions and a fourth is in the works. The failure mode of the solenoid from what I gather is dirt related. As a result the tank filter has been upgraded from 30 to 15 micron.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but are these versions that they come out with compatible with the early generations? If they are, that would shine everything in a better light.

For instance if I had a 576xp from 2013 could the newer, more reliable module be fitted to it, because I’ve got saws in great condition from that’s time. If a saw like that could be made to run again…. I’d be game.

I know we’re talking M Tronic, but same concept.

 

[holeycow]

HP, fuel economy also.

Hp is negligible improvement, if any whatsoever.

My 1990 262xp is rated at 4.8 hp. Similar to the strongest of the newest models of 60cc saw. It could certainly run with my ms362. And beat up my cs590 everywhere. And burn more fuel doing it, for sure.

my 1986 and 1987 jonny 590's are over 3.5hp, AND have torque. So similar to good modern saws.

fuel economy for surely improved (obviously at the expense of lubrication, mix ratio being equal).

I think some of you guys have compared 40 year old saws, not 30 year old saws. There were some innovations over that 10 years...

 

[holeycow]

Going back to the beginning of Mtronic the two most common failures are the solenoid first and the wiring harness second. The solenoid has went through 3 revisions and a fourth is in the works. The failure mode of the solenoid from what I gather is dirt related. As a result the tank filter has been upgraded from 30 to 15 micron.

a dismal record, for sure...