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handsnips dont make a treeguy.

Gotta disagree with you on this one buddy. If you can't master the 'snips you shouldn't be putting a saw to a tree. And if you can't use those snips out on the tips of an 80' red oak you aren't a good climber........

This whole thread is f'n reetaaded anyway the kid asked about getting certified. Now it's: "I think this", and "I know a certified guy who sux"
 
then i must suck donnyo. i dont even own a pair. they broke on me about 5 months ago. i have some beat up ones in my toolbox that got passed on to me but i dont use em. (if i am in the tree working the tips i'd rather have the pole pruner with me.)

oh and in my suckiness regarding my treework i just got yet another raise. thats production homeboy.

to hand snips i say this. put them in the ground handle first. so that the snips are sticking straight up and then do a couple deep knee bends over them.

and no donnyo, i wasnt directing that last comment to you. just suggesting a good use for them. lol
 
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I agree, I climb with a pole pruner/saw, my hand saws, and a 200t.

I dont have time to be screwing around with hand snips, They arent productive in the trees I climb.
 
then i must suck donnyo. i dont even own a pair. they broke on me about 5 months ago. i have some beat up ones in my toolbox that got passed on to me but i dont use em. (if i am in the tree working the tips i'd rather have the pole pruner with me.)

I agree, I climb with a pole pruner/saw, my hand saws, and a 200t.

I dont have time to be screwing around with hand snips, They arent productive in the trees I climb.

but you can both at least GET to the tips right? My point in bringing the hand snip thing to light is that like oldirty stated earlier this arguement is all about semantics. Sort of like what defines a good climber is all about semantics.............

I don't always climb with handsnips either, depends on the task at hand really.

Justin I am still laughing at the comment not directed at me, priceless. And congrats on the raise!:cheers:
 
i dont understand how you can think your services are 300% better

You nailed it my son...

"I don't understand" you said.

And that's exactly what I was getting at.

I'm trained in your art.

But you are not trained in my arts from what I gather.

You would need to have the extra training to "understand". I don't expect you to understand. It's not that I doubt your ability to learn the extra, but that's just the way it is.

For example if we are working on trees at a property where the homeowners do all their own lawn care and stuff and trees are in the lawn, if we cannot IDENTIFY their turfgrass species, how are we supposed to help them coordinate the lawn care with tree care?

The needs of different grasses are totally different, and the thatch they build can be totally different. All these factors can affect the trees, and the trees can affect the turf.

Arborists should be able to know whether the grass is rolled or folded vernation, what it's genus is, the fertilizer requirements, needs for light etc., because its right there growing with the tree in a unified environment.

And grass is just a small fragment of the matter.

I probably have an edge on most due to my 7 years working at country clubs, but it can't take most arborists more than a couple of weeks reading, or an 11 week college class to gain enough basics to add this bit of versatility and remove the handicap from their service.

The best service we can give homeowners, includes advice on what's coming down the track in their yard. We can forewarn them that some plants may need to move or be replaced in the future if pruning the tree won't take care of the entire remedy. That requires knowing the perennials, shrubs and ornamental grasses - at least many common ones. The more advance warning, the better, because it's easier to move plants when they are smaller.

As far as your diagnosing statement: you've got me thinking about orbit and Pluto.

On big trees, I hire exceptional arborists who climb. They have the knowledge, they have the gear, they know how to climb, and they can diagnose.

I pay them top dollar. Usually what they ask, and then some.

What this does....

Get this now....


It puts a minimun of 2 Certified Arborists, and one Certified Landscape Technician on their property. It virtually super-charges the experience and skill that step on-site.

It DOUBLES the tree care background put at their disposal. And it adds the background of my 7 years on country clubs with turf management, drainage, etc..

They now get professional arboriculture, turf management, horticulture, and landscape technology all combined together. It's a combination that's rare to get in Oregon. There's a few others, but very very few.

That's why I've enjoyed finding top-notch arborists who climb and respect the need for horticulture, who want to work together when needed. Generally they are humble, because they respect my credentials. And when they are in the trees and I've got the ropes, I tighten or let it fly at their command.
 
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Gotta disagree with you on this one buddy. If you can't master the 'snips you shouldn't be putting a saw to a tree. And if you can't use those snips out on the tips of an 80' red oak you aren't a good climber........

This whole thread is f'n reetaaded anyway the kid asked about getting certified. Now it's: "I think this", and "I know a certified guy who sux"

If you can't master an ms 200t fast cutting tops above a three phase, you shouldn't be using scissors, I mean snips. If you can't fire up a 288xp and rain down big chunks without hitting the three phase, you ain't a good climber.

What happens if you make a mistake with the snips, OMG, I can't stand to look.

This thread is retarded? I think, and I know certified guys who suck, bigtime.
 
You nailed it my son...

"I don't understand" you said.

And that's exactly what I was getting at.

I'm trained in your art.

But you are not trained in my arts from what I gather.

You would need to have the extra training to "understand". I don't expect you to understand. It's not that I doubt your ability to learn the extra, but that's just the way it is.

For example if we are working on trees at a property where the homeowners do all their own lawn care and stuff and trees are in the lawn, if we cannot IDENTIFY their turfgrass species, how are we supposed to help them coordinate the lawn care with tree care?

The needs of different grasses are totally different, and the thatch they build can be totally different. All these factors can affect the trees, and the trees can affect the turf.

Arborists should be able to know whether the grass is rolled or folded vernation, what it's genus is, the fertilizer requirements, needs for light etc., because its right there growing with the tree in a unified environment.

And grass is just a small fragment of the matter.

I probably have an edge on most due to my 7 years working at country clubs, but it can't take most arborists more than a couple of weeks reading, or an 11 week college class to gain enough basics to add this bit of versatility and remove the handicap from their service.

The best service we can give homeowners, includes advice on what's coming down the track in their yard. We can forewarn them that some plants may need to move or be replaced in the future if pruning the tree won't take care of the entire remedy. That requires knowing the perennials, shrubs and ornamental grasses - at least many common ones. The more advance warning, the better, because it's easier to move plants when they are smaller.

As far as your diagnosing statement: you've got me thinking about orbit and Pluto.

On big trees, I hire exceptional arborists who climb. They have the knowledge, they have the gear, they know how to climb, and they can diagnose.

I pay them top dollar. Usually what they ask, and then some.

What this does....

Get this now....


It puts a minimun of 2 Certified Arborists, and one Certified Landscape Technician on their property. It virtually super-charges the experience and skill that step on-site.

It DOUBLES the tree care background put at their disposal. And it adds the background of my 7 years on country clubs with turf management, drainage, etc..

They now get professional arboriculture, turf management, horticulture, and landscape technology all combined together. It's a combination that's rare to get in Oregon. There's a few others, but very very few.

That's why I've enjoyed finding top-notch arborists who climb and respect the need for horticulture, who want to work together when needed. Generally they are humble, because they respect my credentials. And when they are in the trees and I've got the ropes, I tighten or let it fly at their command.

not that i dont understand how to ornamental prune. i choose not to. to me it sucks. nothing more than landscpape work. all this work you do man my company does too when it comes to the trees. nothing to do with lawn crap though, thank goodness. you should see some of the spreads we are at and all these stupid ornamental pruning jobs we do. i have on numerous occasion thought of moving on because of it. i dislike that type of work that much. the boys know if we are on a pruning job they are on their own. i'll do every bit of the cleanup but i will not touch a pair of handsnips. to me it isnt tree work.

i am glad that you are passionate about what it is you do mario. i am. i love when someone has pride in what they do but i cannot consider you an arborist. i cant. you might be a CA but your not a tree guy. you landscape.
 
If you can't master an ms 200t fast cutting tops above a three phase, you shouldn't be using scissors, I mean snips. If you can't fire up a 288xp and rain down big chunks without hitting the three phase, you ain't a good climber.

What happens if you make a mistake with the snips, OMG, I can't stand to look.

This thread is retarded? I think, and I know certified guys who suck, bigtime.

The guys on this thread who know me know I can do all that and more.

Here is one specifically for you though; If you can't footlock, you aren't a good treeclimber.

Stick to spiking, and telling all of AS how great you are because you work around power. :spam:
 
not that i dont understand how to ornamental prune. i choose not to. to me it sucks. nothing more than landscpape work. all this work you do man my company does too when it comes to the trees. nothing to do with lawn crap though, thank goodness. you should see some of the spreads we are at and all these stupid ornamental pruning jobs we do. i have on numerous occasion thought of moving on because of it. i dislike that type of work that much. the boys know if we are on a pruning job they are on their own. i'll do every bit of the cleanup but i will not touch a pair of handsnips. to me it isnt tree work.

i am glad that you are passionate about what it is you do mario. i am. i love when someone has pride in what they do but i cannot consider you an arborist. i cant. you might be a CA but your not a tree guy. you landscape.

Sounds like a good time to wind up the thead on a good note :cheers:

Everyone got to present a side.
 
The guys on this thread who know me know I can do all that and more.

Here is one specifically for you though; If you can't footlock, you aren't a good treeclimber.

Stick to spiking, and telling all of AS how great you are because you work around power. :spam:
Oh wow, you can footlock, I am so impressed. When ever there are a few of us utilty guys around and the spurless topic comes up, the laughter soon starts. It doesn't impress us at all, do it if you want, have fun, the consensus among us is that it looks quite gay and dorky. When it comes to treework, I only care about what my fellow utility guys think, and fallers, thats about it.

I have never said I was great here, ever. So Donny, why you joined this thread is beyond me, you got nothing of any importance to say anyways.
 
"I don't think it is asking a lot; climbing trees without stressful time constraints or removal demands is not a hard thing to do with all the MA devices/systems out there.

I agree, and say this to other consultants and nonclimbing arborists all the time. Some do climb. Some don't--their loss, but it does not make them less than us Lords of the Saddle.

We're hearing narrow biases on what defines the ideal "arborist" or "tree man", from ornamental specialists to utility specialists to removal specialists. Is there a point in saying one is truer? It's not us and them. It's all US.
 
"I don't think it is asking a lot; climbing trees without stressful time constraints or removal demands is not a hard thing to do with all the MA devices/systems out there.

I agree, and say this to other consultants and nonclimbing arborists all the time. Some do climb. Some don't--their loss, but it does not make them less than us Lords of the Saddle.

We're hearing narrow biases on what defines the ideal "arborist" or "tree man", from ornamental specialists to utility specialists to removal specialists. Is there a point in saying one is truer? It's not us and them. It's all US.


:clap:
 
The man wasnt born a Dr.! So he wasnt an Arborist until he got his doctrate? Becausehe climbed limitedly, if at all?

And the point? no-one is born an Arborist either!! & if he climbed in a limited fashion that is more than what some CA`s are capable of!!


No you didnt stutter!!! I posted your comments as they are in regard to the off thread topic we are all discussing....some of which just seemed contradictory...thats all.


LXT............
 
I would NEVER ask ANYONE to do something I wouldnt, which hasnt come up yet! I will do anything once.

I live by the adage.........You dont know your limits until you find them. You find them by breaking the limits. How do you know what your capable of until you fail at it?


The point is if one beleives; I wouldnt ask anyone to do something I wouldnt do!!............remember wouldnt do!

then how is it a non-climbing CA would?

LXT.........
 
Maybe more on topic would be to provide the thread starter, the costs associated with becoming a CA, he did mention it will give him a $2hr raise give him some numbers so he can see if it will be worth it!!

some CA`s I know spend alot of $$ keeping up the ceu`s, renewing, buying books, going to meetings, traveling to hear speakers so they can get ceu`s, etc...

I think this has to be taken into account to see if its worth it financially, unless.... you just want the cert.


LXT..........
 
The point is if one beleives; I wouldnt ask anyone to do something I wouldnt do!!............remember wouldnt do!

then how is it a non-climbing CA would?

LXT.........

I would have NO problem doing something a CA Arborist tells me to. So long as they had a better grip on the situation than I did.

Say for instance I traveled abroad and wasnt fully aware how all the species responded to prunings. Myself and a non climbing CA were doing an overview of the job. if the CA whom didnt climb, had a strong background in PHC/bioilogy, told me the tree would likely suffer if I did xyz than i would respect his opinion of it.

Now if a CA who didnt climb told me where to set my line, how to tie in, how to strap on my hooks, or start/run my saws there would be problems.
 
Boston Bull is a straight shooter. He is the only person who called up the utility here to talk about climbing trees with spurs around powerlines, probably cost a few bucks in long distance to hear the lengthy stories and lies. Everyone else just called me names (he did too, but thats ok).
The only one who called, Tom Dunlap made a point of refusing to call, even though I found out (was told by the lying utility guy) he had talked to the utility guy about me anyways. So now on this thread Boston has asked people, instead of #####in about it here, to call up the ISA and express your concerns.

The time has come, if you are in the ISA, and not happy (I mean how could you be if you really work?), call them or write them. You will probably get back a slimy "we appreciate your concern, dear member...." But why not, what are they gonna do, shoot you?
 
Now if a CA who didnt climb told me where to set my line, how to tie in, how to strap on my hooks, or start/run my saws there would be problems.

There you have it, what I have been saying all along. If you can't do it, go sit in the truck.
 

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