The Burning Rom
ArboristSite Operative
Does anyone know? Or have the service manual? I'm back in WI for a few days and I want to get this saw somewhat back together before I head back to CT.
050/051 Cylinder Bolts - Do They Need To Be Torqued?
- Thread starter The Burning Rom
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Fish
Tree Freak
I never do, and never have had a problem.
Some guys here are real anal, will disagree with me............
I always remind them that we are not working on the space shuttle...
Some guys here are real anal, will disagree with me............
I always remind them that we are not working on the space shuttle...
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jdemaris
ArboristSite Operative
If you want to go by Stihl tech-manual specs, it states "Torque socket head screws at bottom of cylinder to 0.8 kpm (5.79 ft./lbf.). That for M50 X 20 bolts.
That 8/10 Kilogram-meter equates to 69 inch pounds.
Fish
Tree Freak
He means M5x20.........................
Do you need to "torque" them????
That was your question....
I say "Naaahhhh". Just Smurf em' down tight!!!
Do you need to "torque" them????
That was your question....
I say "Naaahhhh". Just Smurf em' down tight!!!
Fish
Tree Freak
But not too tight!!! Just a medium Smurf....
In the chainsaw world, no torque wrenches are used much, but you will hear
a lot of opinions.
In the chainsaw world, no torque wrenches are used much, but you will hear
a lot of opinions.
Dan_IN_MN
Addicted to ArboristSite
vincem77
ArboristSite Operative
It would be tough to accurately torque the bolts down. Any damage to the threads or metal/dirt could give you a false reading of how tight the bolts actually are with small amounts of torque needed.
john inglis
ArboristSite Operative
torque
its not essential to torque these bolts but it is a good idea to tighten them gradually and evenly and depending on what you are tightening doing it so that you pull it tight without warping . its also a good idea to check them after a good hot run in case any gaskets have compressed . if torque needs to be accurate it is a good idea to clean the case threads with a bolt the same size and thead modified with a diagonal hacksaw cut to clean any scurf.(its kinder than a tap) as well as clean the bolt threads so they turn freely . for any accurate torque figures both the bolt thread and any washers as well as the head of the bolt should be lightly oiled , lightly because excessive oil can cause hydraulic lock in a blind bolt hole .
ps always check the bolt holes are clean and deep enough for the length of bolts you are using , seen a lot of problems caused by over long bolts resulting in false tightness or case damage
pps hope this helps anyone who is new to chainsaws or general mechanical work
its not essential to torque these bolts but it is a good idea to tighten them gradually and evenly and depending on what you are tightening doing it so that you pull it tight without warping . its also a good idea to check them after a good hot run in case any gaskets have compressed . if torque needs to be accurate it is a good idea to clean the case threads with a bolt the same size and thead modified with a diagonal hacksaw cut to clean any scurf.(its kinder than a tap) as well as clean the bolt threads so they turn freely . for any accurate torque figures both the bolt thread and any washers as well as the head of the bolt should be lightly oiled , lightly because excessive oil can cause hydraulic lock in a blind bolt hole .
ps always check the bolt holes are clean and deep enough for the length of bolts you are using , seen a lot of problems caused by over long bolts resulting in false tightness or case damage
pps hope this helps anyone who is new to chainsaws or general mechanical work
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wigglesworth
Booned
I dont remember who Im quoting here, but I have heard to....
Sounds about right to me
Sounds about right to me
john inglis
ArboristSite Operative
torque
its not essential to torque these bolts but it is a good idea to tighten them gradually and evenly and depending on what you are tightening doing it so that you pull it tight without warping . its also a good idea to check them after a good hot run in case any gaskets have compressed . if torque needs to be accurate it is a good idea to clean the case threads with a bolt the same size and the thread modified with a diagonal hacksaw cut to clean any scurf.(its kinder than a tap) as well as clean the bolt threads so they turn freely . for any accurate torque figures both the bolt thread and any washers as well as the head of the bolt should be lightly oiled , lightly because excessive oil can cause hydraulic lock in a blind bolt hole .it also pays to check depth of hole compared to length of bolt as overlong bolts can give a false impression of torque or tightening or cause case damage . hope this helps , may be of use to anyone new to saws or general mechanical work
its not essential to torque these bolts but it is a good idea to tighten them gradually and evenly and depending on what you are tightening doing it so that you pull it tight without warping . its also a good idea to check them after a good hot run in case any gaskets have compressed . if torque needs to be accurate it is a good idea to clean the case threads with a bolt the same size and the thread modified with a diagonal hacksaw cut to clean any scurf.(its kinder than a tap) as well as clean the bolt threads so they turn freely . for any accurate torque figures both the bolt thread and any washers as well as the head of the bolt should be lightly oiled , lightly because excessive oil can cause hydraulic lock in a blind bolt hole .it also pays to check depth of hole compared to length of bolt as overlong bolts can give a false impression of torque or tightening or cause case damage . hope this helps , may be of use to anyone new to saws or general mechanical work
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jdemaris
ArboristSite Operative
Using a torque wrench can be important when someone who is working on the saw has little to no mechanical experience - and doesn't have a "feel" for proper bolt-torque. The torque-reading is the only factor that is a constant, and has the same meaning to everybody. "Moderately tight", "good and tight", etc. don't mean the same things to all people. That "constant" for a clean and lubed bolt.
Considering that it is possible to strip the threads in the crankcase, or strip the hex-drive in the bolt-heads - there IS a limit to how much twisting-force is put on those bolt-heads with a big hex Allen wrench.
I suspect Stihl has done more research on this particular subject and the specific saw then people on this forum have - and subsequently I regard their torque specs as reliable. More so then "good and tight" or "tighten just before it breaks." And yes, the latter works fine for many people, but not all.
I worked in shops were we tore apart small Stihl chainsaws and large Deere and TimberJack log skidders - and we rarely used torque wrenches on any of them. That because we were aware of the limitations of hardware. On much of the big stuff with 1" diameter or bigger, grade 9 bolts, we used to tell new mechanics to tighten as tight as possible, and then go 1/2 turn more. Another great description that doesn't really have definite meaning.
john inglis
ArboristSite Operative
torque
i agree that having a torque setting could well be important to beginners , i tend to forget how difficult it is starting out if you have no prior experience or did not have a family that worked on things mechanical . my daughter who would never work on cars with me still managed to absorb enough knowledge to help her boyfriend with his car .
if they do not have access to a torque wrench then wigglesworth's advice is pretty good , especially if you keep the ball of your thumb over the centre of the bolt when twisting your wrist , unless of course you are completely ham fisted . sometimes it is better to have a go and learn than never learn at all .
i agree that having a torque setting could well be important to beginners , i tend to forget how difficult it is starting out if you have no prior experience or did not have a family that worked on things mechanical . my daughter who would never work on cars with me still managed to absorb enough knowledge to help her boyfriend with his car .
if they do not have access to a torque wrench then wigglesworth's advice is pretty good , especially if you keep the ball of your thumb over the centre of the bolt when twisting your wrist , unless of course you are completely ham fisted . sometimes it is better to have a go and learn than never learn at all .
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I have always tried to be a perfectionist when I do anything, but in my old age, and with failing brain and body, it don't happen very often any more.
That said, when I rebuilt my 120 super, I did fabricate an Allen wrench with a 1/4" drive socket (4+ inches long to reach down thru the tiny access holes) and used my inch pound torque wrench. The Allen part being so long started to twist as I approached the specs, so I know I never achieved the torque specs called for, but I rest assured the bolts are sufficiently tight. The saw runs right and I know the bolts aren't loose, so all's good and I shall just run it .......
That said, when I rebuilt my 120 super, I did fabricate an Allen wrench with a 1/4" drive socket (4+ inches long to reach down thru the tiny access holes) and used my inch pound torque wrench. The Allen part being so long started to twist as I approached the specs, so I know I never achieved the torque specs called for, but I rest assured the bolts are sufficiently tight. The saw runs right and I know the bolts aren't loose, so all's good and I shall just run it .......
Fish
Tree Freak
Most of my college Physics has been erased from my hard drive, what is left
is in an ethanol fog, but it seems to me that it would be impossible to
get an accurate reading with a long reaching torx/allen headed tool.
An impact wrench with a long reach cannot break loose fasteners that could be broke loose with a short reach.
Please correct me, for I am liable to be way off base.
We have some engineer types around, maybe they will chime in......
is in an ethanol fog, but it seems to me that it would be impossible to
get an accurate reading with a long reaching torx/allen headed tool.
An impact wrench with a long reach cannot break loose fasteners that could be broke loose with a short reach.
Please correct me, for I am liable to be way off base.
We have some engineer types around, maybe they will chime in......
JasonBmac
ArboristSite Operative
Torque in one end must equal torque out the other end, so you can torque with a long flexy extension...
The impact wrench can't keep torquing, because its impulses only last a fraction of a revolution, and it looses it all before the bar is "wound" enough to transmit the desired torque. The hammer blows are lost to the spring.
J
The impact wrench can't keep torquing, because its impulses only last a fraction of a revolution, and it looses it all before the bar is "wound" enough to transmit the desired torque. The hammer blows are lost to the spring.
J
motosierra
ArboristSite Guru
I agree with the guys that say ..."just snug it down tight"...it is aluminum and aluminum is ductile.... and expands when it gets hot...probably a good idea to do opposite (cross) bolts first...snug... and then the other two snugger and then the first two snugger.
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Fish
Tree Freak
So if you had a ten foot extension, and you had two other guys holding the
wrench and saw to keep the torque wrench perpendicular and the
wrench in place, that would be precise?
Fish
Tree Freak
Ok, for the sake of discussion, if I took my torque wrench out to my truck,
if I used a shallow well socket, and tightened the nut, then I used a deep
well socket and a 12 inch extension, it would be the same, even though I had to use my other hand to brace it?
I will try it, because I am curious...
if I used a shallow well socket, and tightened the nut, then I used a deep
well socket and a 12 inch extension, it would be the same, even though I had to use my other hand to brace it?
I will try it, because I am curious...
Fish
Tree Freak
I am not trying to stir up things, just a question I have always wondered about.
Please throw up some observations, I am curious.
Please throw up some observations, I am curious.
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