100cc 064 piston bearings

[trappermike]

I used to build quite a few 100cc 064's,good for work or competition,using the 056 Mag 2 cylinder and piston assembly. They are not really too hard to adapt the Mag 2 stuff onto the 064,but the catch was fitting a correct piston bearing,the 064 bearing doesn't fit,and the 056 bearing is too wide for the 064 con rod,and will not "center" or stabilize the rod as originally designed. I finally solved this by finding the correct(Individual) needle bearings and 2 high-speed thrust washers,it's actually a much stronger assembly than an ordinary caged bearing stock setup.
I recently discovered that I still have a few of these bearing assembly's left if anyone is interested in one.
These saws were really popular with fallers in my area,and one of my competition 100cc 064's is still winning races in the Northwest U.S.A....

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Saw

I would like to see a pict or a video of this saw setup. A 064 @ 100CC would be quiteimpressive:msp_ohmy:

 

[trappermike]

I have a photo of a newly built 100cc 064 for "Stock Appearing with Pipe" racing class,but I don't know how to post photos here yet,if someone can explain to me in easy terms I can.
But except for the pipe it LOOKS totally stock. The ones I built for fallers I did not bother to relocate the spark plug hole of the 056 cyl. to the rear like the 064's,(The 056 plug sticks straight up from the center of the cyl.),so I cut a hole in the top of the top cover for the spark plug to stick out.
It really isn't a too hard swap,it used to take me a full day at work(8 hours) to finish install the Mag 2 cyl. assy. on an 064,the fallers loved them,a light 100cc saw(98.6cc),and they fit the 100cc competition saw class nicely.
I have some more photos of one coming to me soon.Wished I knew how to post them,hint hint... I'm no guru with computers.
I can explain the install in detail,but it's quite easy.
Trying to attach photo...Don't know what will happen,yikes!

View attachment 189381View attachment 189381View attachment 189381View attachment 189381

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

Trapper you got them upload fine. Do you have a picture with out the top cover off. Your giving me a idea for another franken saw. So how well does the lower end last with this setup?

 

[trappermike]

I don't have any photos with the top off,and in the photo it looks like it was supposed to-stock. At events the rule-makers examined my saws pretty closely for anything that didn't look stock,I had to hide everything well. We were allowed a small hole in the back of the air filter cover to "squirt" start them because most guys didn't have chokes,most guys used a shot of WD-40 to start their saws.

The bottom ends holds up fine,none of the ones I built ever blew,some were for fallers,run hard day after day..The saw in the photo I bought brand new and converted it to 100cc in 1989,it's still being raced every year even now.
The 056 piston was considerably heavier than the 064 piston,and I too originally questioned how long they'd last. A lightweight wrist pin helps.
As a home or work saw they are easy to build. As for a race saw, trying to stuff a big race carb in the airbox and getting it to work and look stock with the air filter cover fitting intact was quite difficult.
My friend in Washington State is sending me some recent photos soon that I can post.

 

[mtngun]

A 064 @ 100CC would be quiteimpressive:msp_ohmy:

NWP BB kit accomplishes the same thing with less hassle.

 

[trappermike]

I haven't heard of those parts in this part of Canada. Who makes the piston and cylinder,is like a 100cc 066?

 

[Jacob J.]

I haven't heard of those parts in this part of Canada. Who makes the piston and cylinder,is like a 100cc 066?

Bailey's was the first to have the aftermarket big bore kits made, for the 066/MS-660 crankcase. http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=BBN+066&catID=11057

Guys here have been adapting them to 064s with decent results. The good part is the BB 066 piston is a lot lighter than an 056 Magnum/Magnum II piston. A former member from here put an 056 Mag II top end on an 066 back in 2003, and did ok in the southeast shows with it. He used an 084 carburetor.

I have a couple extra 056 Mag jugs- I may try putting one on an 064 bottom end.

 

[Logger4Life]

sounds Interesting

I would like to know more about this swap. Do you have to mod the piston at all to get it to swing how about the cases or cylinder. What carb do you use on yours?

 

[trappermike]

The nice thing about the 056 Mag 2 to 064 swap is you get a full 100cc (98.6) saw in the small lightweight 064 package,without using inferior aftermarket parts.
And the 064 didn't have a rev limiter(Most),or a carb with a fixed high speed mixture.

To make the Mag2 cyl. fit you must file-slot the cyl. bolt-on holes inward slightly(use an 064 base gasket as a template),and I would tap out the 064's cyl. bolt holes out from 5mm to 6mm,like the Mag2 uses.You could maybe skip this step and use the 064's 5mm screws,but I always made them 6mm. Then you have to trim a few cyl. fins so the 064 top cover would fit on. To use the 064 muffler you had to heat it with a torch and bend it downwards and then it would bolt on like stock.
If used as a general purpose or work saw,I would bore out the stock Walbro WJ carb and use it.
I built and sold quite of few of these brand new to fallers,and most were modified too.(Some porting,muffler mod.,etc.)None of them blew up or failed that I know of.
Anyone considering building one can contact me,and I'll give you the details and suggestions to build a good one.

 

[nmurph]

The Bailey's BB kit is 99cc, and the craftsmanship is beyond the stock Stihl P/C. The only mod needed is to slot the cylinder bolt holes and retap the CC to 6mm, and open a hole in the top cover for the decomp. The muffler fits without mods and you don't have to cut any fins.

 

[trappermike]

Sounds like a good deal. I'm really surprised that I haven't seen any in
Logger's Sports competitions here,but maybe they aren't sold in Canada...

 

[Rob68as]

Do you need to do any carb adjustments for going to a BB? Have an 064 that I think I will go with the 066BB kit on

 

[nmurph]

Nothing other than the standard retuning.

 

[trappermike]

I'm afraid I don't believe that the Baileys parts are superior quality to the original Mahle built parts though...,I don't know how you can "Better" the quality,Mahle 2-stroke components use Austrian craftsmanship and the highest quality piston aluminum alloy,cheap pistons use a cheaper alloy,although they LOOK the same. Mahle piston and cylinders on Rotax engines put out extremely high levels of horsepower and live,and have to endure very high output and extreme conditions in full-race saws I've built,a freind is still competing and winning with 4 saws I built almost 25 years ago,no failures,not even a rebuild.
You get what you pay for,and I would never use a jobber piston in a race saw. Exactly what is the aluminum alloy in the Baileys piston,and what is it's silicone content percentage?
I don't believe that parts made in Asia or Italy or wherever that cost half as much are superior.

I do see that they are a heck of a deal,and probably great replacement part option.

 

[trappermike]

A few recent photos of 100cc 064 stock appearing hot saw I built in 1989. The photo of the trophies are only some of the one's my friend in Washington state has won in Logger's Sports Competitions in USA and Canada. He uses an 044,064,084,and 090 I built between 1986 and 1989. None have blown up or even been rebuilt.

 

[Rigwelder]

Alright i want one. I am currently building a stock 064 for one of my employes that has been doing a great job for me for a while now. He wants a big saw so he is gonna get one. But me being the butthead that i am want to have a 064 with a 100 cc upper and give him heck that he will never be able to out cut me even with the same saw!!!!! needless to say i will not tell him about the upgrades lol it will b great. I have another 064 with a scored cylinder so i am gonna start looking for a jug and piston. When i find them i will pm you to get the rest of the little details that i am sure there are!!! ohh he is gonna be mad!!:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[trappermike]

I've looked at the Baileys BB kit and it looks ok,so if you have the bucks it would be an easier way to get the cc's,I would mod the crankcase screws to 6mm though,just drill and tap the crankcase screw holes to 6mm(Not with heli-coils-why?!)
But if you have a 056 Mag cyl. and do the mods it would be inexpensive...

 

[Scooterbum]

Have any of those thrust washers left?
I've got an 064 w/066 flat top P&C I just finished and have another 064 and a spare MagII cylinder sitiing here.Would like to try this combo.

 

[trappermike]

Yes I have a few new washer/needle bearing assemblies left. Send me a message if you like...