404 vs. 3/8

[hybridkarpower]

Gents:

Took my 660 in today to have sprocket replaced after having gone thru 4 chains with it. My Stihl dealer looked at my old sprocket & asked if I want to switch over to .404 pitch instead of 3/8. "most guys run .404 on these 660's " he said.

What would be the benefit of stepping up to 404 ? Wouldn't the cutters be bigger & heavier ?

 

[Zombiechopper]

bigger chips. cuts faster if you have the HP to utilize it

 

[BarkBuster20]

.404 is what a 066 needs, would you put lawn mower tires on a jeep?

 

[cat-face timber]

What about Husky?
What is the minim size you would run 404 on?

 

[NWCS]

i run 3/8 on my 660. 3/8" on my race saws.. 404 will make a larger kerf, take a bit more HP to run, but yes it is the extreme duty way to go. when i used to mill with my old husky 288 3/8 did just fine, and i pushed it pretty hard. my old 026 race saw was turning 19,500 RPM with tuned pipe and still ran 3/8 with zero problems.

only problems i have with any chain is when my dad uses a saw and hits every rock out there! the key and moral of it all is maintenence and quality is the factor. use actual bar oil and keep her SHARP!

 

[little possum]

What about Husky?
What is the minim size you would run 404 on?

I have 3/8 on my 20-36" Bars for the 288/.394. .404 on the 42&72"

Dad has .404 on the 25,30,36" for his 084

I think the 066 would be fine with 3/8ths.

 

[056kid]

I like .404 on a big saw. Eats more and clears more. Heavier, but I like heavy stuff. . .

 

[mtngun]

I've never tried 404, but I'm skeptical.

I've done a fair amount of speed testing on chainsaw mills and have found that the surest way to cut faster is to use a chain with a smaller kerf. Even 3/8 is often overkill for a chainsaw mill.

 

[DarkTimber]

I run 404 on my 385xp does good in dirty wood. 404 cutters are longer and heavier than the ones on the 3/8.

 

[Zombiechopper]

I've never tried 404, but I'm skeptical.

I've done a fair amount of speed testing on chainsaw mills and have found that the surest way to cut faster is to use a chain with a smaller kerf. Even 3/8 is often overkill for a chainsaw mill.

maybe for ripping but not necessarily true on cross cuts. Once you have enough power the bigger chain cuts much faster. I've messed around with lo pro, .325 and reg 3/8 on 60cc saws and the larger chain wins every time when there is enough power available. Based on what I have seen I can see why a 90cc saw would be faster with 404 than 3/8 but I suspect it would depend on bar length

 

[Real1shepherd]

What about Husky?
What is the minim size you would run 404 on?

Depends entirely on what you're cutting. I can run circles around people trying to keep up with me falling/bucking using 404 gauge and skip-tooth chisel chain; them using 3/8 gauge and full comp chains. However, in a contest with me trying to keep up with them sawing cord wood and smaller diameter timber, they win.

When they took a similar version of our falling saws, made them smaller and higher revving, they had a weekend warriors, wet dream.

It was the smaller, high revving weekend warrior saws that have carried the modern chainsaw industry because they sold in the millions, not the pro saws. Like the Ford GT represent Ford's best, it's not what but a few actually buy.

Kevin

 

[heimannm]

.404 is larger, heavier, take a larger kerf (so more HP and likely slower) but it keeps going after a .375 chain would have given up from being too dull due to wear.

I run .404 on the big saws with longer bars (> 100cc / >24"), but find .375 cuts fast and hold up well on the 066 Stihl and 910/930 Jonsered saws. .404 has fewer rivets than .375 for the same length bar so it "stretches" less. A 24" bar would be 81-84 DL in .375 or 75-78 DL in .404 depending on the type of bar.

Mark

 

[Slamm]

Several years ago, I used an 084 with a 24" bar in .404 to buck up some very hard maple in Wisconsin. This wood was so hard, it would typically rip the tips of the chisel teeth off after cutting just a few inches. You could freshly sharpen a chisel chain and produce pure powder with almost no chips in it. Pull the chain out of that hard maple and stick it into a red oak and pull nice big chips perfectly.

I got tired of this so I tried the .404 with Semi-Chisel and boy, I sure didn't rip any teeth off then, LOL. It cut good and requires minimal re-sharping for the wood cut, but it takes horsepower to pull it.

For dirty wood or really hard wood it is great, if your 3/8 is failing you in the longevity department. Otherwise, I would stay away from .404, as its expense and added size present "cons" that 3/8 can beat with cheaper price and faster cutting.

My opinion,

Sam

 

[eyolf]

I have NO way of backing this up, but I THINK larger chain cuts faster at slower speeds (like big monster saws using 1/2" chain)

I think there's something about the way the cutters rock back and forth, dipping in and out of the cut that gets really funky at high chain speeds, and is sonehow worse with longer cutters. Its like the cutting edge digs in for a bite, but this tipping in sets up a shock wave that vibrates down the chain (worse if the chain is loose) then that shock wave pulls the cutter back up for air, and the cycle repeats. The longer the link and the longer the space bewteen cutters, the more this happens, and its worse at high speeds.

I think.

The cure is chain tension and very careful filing and depth guage filing, which probably also vary as to the kind of wood.

I think.

Someone smarter than I am, with more knowledge than me can certainly add their opinion, but .404 belongs on big torquey saws that don't rev real high. I have a solid bar for my 395xp, and have used .404 for cutting dirty wood with old-style chipper chain. Works good as long as you're leaning into the cut just a hair, making the saw work for a living. When a light cut comes along and the saw revs up high, actual cutting speed goes down.

It doesn't do that with 3/8"

 

[pioneerguy600]

When running my big old growlers that are over 100 cc`s they all have .404 or bigger chains. They are also slower revving saws and some are gear drives with plenty of torque to pull big chain although slower , the .404 cuts really well and stays sharper longer. Semi in dirty wood and chisel in clean stuff, filed to self feed it is a pleasure to use. A 066 with 3/8" chisel in the same size and type of wood will cut a little faster but they turn up 4000 rpm faster. The 090 with .404 chain is just like a powerful tractor, it pulls into the wood on its own and does not slow up, just steady power, the 066 has to be kept into its power band and the operator has to know not to push it too hard or it will either slow or slip the clutch but in the right hands the 066 would most likely be faster coming out of the cut.

Pioneerguy600

 

[mdavlee]

If you want to try .404 sized chain buy some oregon CLX, CKX, or CJX. It has larger cutters than the 3/8s. I've got a couple loops for the 32" bar I run on the 390. It seems to cut about the same speed as the 3/8s but does take a little more power to pull.

 

[Oldsawnut]

If you have the power to pull it its the best... Lasts a lot longer... Of course it also costs a little more..