Stihlman441
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well said Sam,some of us realize when holding a saw most or all of the day what is the go and what isn't.
And what teething issues have you seen with the 441 CM? Have you experienced any yourself?
I know of about 21+ that I've had a part in moving on to other owners and there hasn't been one single solitary complaint or issue heard of yet, and most are in a professional setting or being used by those that really use a saw not just sit on a shelf.
I muffler modd them and put 28" bars with semi-chisel on them an cut with them. Buried and dawged in white and red oak they will pull, I think it is high 11k rpms in the cut. I'd have to check some old posts or check my tachs again, ported they are pure smooth animals that work with you and maintain your comfort.
I'm not at all against the 461 it sounds like a great saw, I never really liked the 460 due to bad AV, horrible fuel mileage and good enough air filtration. If those things are fixed then it should really be a great saw. I think they didn't put M-Tronics on it, because of all of this blind "old-school" crap, that people like to mindlessly brag about.
The 441 CM has all of the great technology on it and like a nice Cadillac it handles very well, and the 461 may have similar, but lacks that last little refined edge to keep the "old-school" customers coming to the trough, like they have for decades for that model, which is great and smart for Stihl, as they know that chainsaw users for some crazy reason like to do what their predicessors did before them, whether or not there is anything better out there or not.
For obvious reasons this has been a great marketing plan, because Stihl is a very successful company. They provide super tough, smooth, fuel sipping, powerful saws like the 441 CM for those like myself and a few others, and they provide 461's with anvil like simplicity and "old-school" techology for the majority remaining. What is not to like?
We can now go back to oil threads, LOL.
What the time on Arboristsite has shown me is that when the 440 is about to be gone forever, people waste sums of money just to buy some old model and technology. You could always buy the 441 and 441CM for less, usually much less, and its better all around, except for exact weight, but you can't actually feel the weight at the end of the day, because its a smoother saw with better fuel mileage and is more powerful.
Then the 201 was crap, so everyone wets their pants and buys every last one of them, until its found that some modest modds make it better than the 200T
By, By 260 and here comes a better 261 and everyone is buying up the old 260's, which was dumb.
The same will happen with the 661, when God forbid it ever shows up, it will spank the old 660, but everybody will think the world is gone, because it has flippy caps or a strato motor or something else petty.
When Stihl finally turns loose a new model its only after a lot of R&D and testing, so don't fool yourselves into thinking that some logger or firewood cutter will uncover some massive fault with the newer pro models, their not that dumb.
The choice is 441CM or 461, the 460 is gone by by, and there is a good reason for it. Someone needs to check fuel mileage and all day comfort of the 461 and if its at least reasonable, it will be a great seller, because, the marketing isn't that much different than the ultra successful 460.
Sam
?... Someone needs to check fuel mileage and all day comfort of the 461 and if its at least reasonable, it will be a great seller, because, the marketing isn't that much different than the ultra successful 460.
Sam
All due respect Andre, I have had more of Sam's experience. Sam run's way more hours on a saw than I do, and I can't even begin to compare to you in chainsaw knowledge - just want that out in the open. That said, my ported M-Tronic truly embarrasses my 100% stock MS460 in every conceivable way - power, comfort, fuel usage, ease of starting, peak rpm, air filtration (HUGE difference). Ask anybody that's used them side by side like my buddy Jeff (a non-AS guy that's busted up more firewood than the vast majority here) who lights up every time he gets to run my 441. Of those I listed, power and perhaps peak rpm are the only things that porting would have improved. I could easily have the 460 ported too, but it still won't address the other characteristics.
Sometimes I let the detractors of the 441 get to me, and I start looking at other 70-class options. Then I hit the woods with my C-M and I'm all :msp_w00t: again.
C means convieniences.
E. easy start
M. M-Tronic
B. tool less chain adjust
Q. Second chain brake
and on and on
I think that R. wrap handle and VW. arctic do not count as convieniences.
I've run all three and here's how they rank for me
1. MS461
2. MS441CM
3. MS460
Yes c is computer as in its changes to the fuel mixture quality of gas elevation etc. don't need to worry about adjusting the carb yourself.
here's my wryness about the computer doing the adjustments- well you know how on the newer carbatrated saws they have those cock rings that make it so you can't adjust the carb good without removing them, on the computer ones, they probably have it set to adjust the mixture to the most emissions friendly tune they can get out of it, which is never the best tune for the engina longevity. does the computer set the carb so that it four strokes without a load and cleans up when you put a load to it?
the number 1 saw is 046 mag
here's my wryness about the computer doing the adjustments- well you know how on the newer carbatrated saws they have those cock rings that make it so you can't adjust the carb good without removing them, on the computer ones, they probably have it set to adjust the mixture to the most emissions friendly tune they can get out of it, which is never the best tune for the engina longevity. does the computer set the carb so that it four strokes without a load and cleans up when you put a load to it?
I just used my 79 Dolkita a little while ago cutting up some big pin and white oak and I can't imagine a better deal or setup out there. I got the Makita at a HD rental center. The chain was on backwards so they thought something was wrong with the saw. It was brand new!! Never cut a piece of wood. I paid $150 for it and had nmurph put a 79cc Mahle P/C in it from Edge and Engine. Lost my work bench up my father's barn. Anyway that saw has tremendous power and just blew thru that tough oak. It's the toughest stuff out there save old locust and it just ate it up. Amazing saw. Just my 2cents.no i'd proberly have the 28" buried alot..we have some pretty good sized wood around here. at times my 36" bar on the 066 isnt enough for the logs we get in. we get our own wood and a few different logging companies deliver wood to us, and we get some suprisingly big wood. some of the logs are from like suburban areas where they take down real big trees that have been there forever and the people dont want it to fall on them. during the winter the weight of the snow does a good job making wood fall from the sky. I almost got hit by a falling tree in my truck during a bad storm a few years back. luckily i spotted it and slammed on the brakes and skidded to a stop before it hit me. that was sketchy. but anyways back on the topic, yea so you think that a 460 or 461 would be best then? I run a 25" bar with a rsf chain on my 362 all the time and yea its kinda slow and has a hard time pulling it but it does the job eventually and it gets er done plus its nice for limbing its pretty light and i dont have to bend my back too much i'm 6'1" with a achy back and bad knees so the less i have to bend the happier i am and the easier it is to get outta bed the next morn
...
Something else to think about
441C fuel tank size 725 cc (24.5 oz.)
460 fuel tank size 800 cc (27.1 oz.)
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