About seasoning, this might be a little scientific but..

[roberthathaway7]

Any dendrologists in the house?? I know the general old consensus says it helps to split wood to let it season because obviously it opens more surface for loss of moisture, and that makes perfect sense to me, but I know sometimes the counter-intuitive wins.. and I have some different thoughts and have found not so popular ideas on the subject so I want to hear back on them

If the water carrying cellular system (xylem) of trees runs in essence with the grain of the tree, would this mean that most of the moisture escapes through the ends of your cuts? I've heard this theory several different places..

Here's my application in theory- Say I buck up a bunch of logs from spring storm damage but I don't have time to split them until fall.. I set them all on their bark sides or possibly on pallets so these water tubes (xylem) are exposed in an open field with lots of flowing air and sunshine, will they dry nearly as fast as if I had them split?

Another thing I thought of- I know there are different water cycles in trees.. so is there a time when the trunk wood of a tree actually contains less water when you cut it? Seems like it would be the fall of winter.. of course any wood cut then would have to be carried over until the next year's winter anyways and if wood from the spring was wet it would be carried over into the next year's winter too so I guess it's an erroneous question but I would like to know.

And- I know the heat of the summer time months are important in the seasoning process.. but I know for a fact that the air is dryest in the winter.. does this pull water out of the wood just as fast as summer time? Obviously not when it's below freezing but still..

I know what most people think, and not to be rude but I don't want to hear a thousand replies about how much anybody has only used the regular old methods or how they think it's the only way. Heck I use the regular old seasoning methods right now anyways. What I would like to hear is feedback from people who understand the theory behind what I'm talking about or have experimented with anything of this nature. I mean feel free to refute it, but I want discussion not just "that's dumb, split it and leave it sit for two years."

Sorry I have a wandering wondering mind

 

[roberthathaway7]

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/trjuly99.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylem

Here are a few sources on the subject, I wish I could copy some pages out of my dendrology book from school but you better believe I sold that thing at the end of the semester :bang:

 

[TreePointer]

I gots me one of them thar science degrees (chemistry) and would love to see some actual scientific test results. Actually, I'd love to design and run the tests myself, but I barely have time even to get my grass cut right now.

With that being said, It's been discussed more than once on AS. Here's a fairly recent discussion: Wood dries from the end? Or sides? Or BOTH?

 

[roberthathaway7]

thanks I'm really bad about forgetting the search feature.. got the topic up for others consideration at least! thanks again

 

[amateur cutter]

IMHO wood will dry from the ends as quickly as a split of similar size. I E the smaller it is the faster it dries. OK I know that's not brain surgery. I fully believe that wood dries faster in winter around here. 20 -30 % humidity, vs. 60 + in the summer. I think it needs to be covered in the winter to promote good drying though. I know I've cut standing trees in Jan & Feb that were live, but dormant, & relatively dry by comparison. To be honest, I've never thought about it real hard, but it's an intriguing question. I'm interested to here from the smart & educated folks. A C

 

[J.W Younger]

I'm not a dent whatever, other than that don't understand the question.Trees cut when the saps down will have less water to evaporate,splits dry faster than rounds and short skinny rounds dry faster than long fat ones.White oak seals itself up thats why its used for barrells.This time of year drys wood fastest hands down.Some species will dry in as little as 3 mos and others take over a year.

 

[roberthathaway7]

see I never knew if when "the sap is down" that meant that it had recessed into the trunk, which would be most of the firewood, or if that meant the tree just cut back on water content all together

 

[J.W Younger]

see I never knew if when "the sap is down" that meant that it had recessed into the trunk, which would be most of the firewood, or if that meant the tree just cut back on water content all together

It means the tree is protecting itself from damage in below freezing temps.

 

[woodbooga]

It's been posted here dozens of times that wood dries quickest from the ends. I'll accept that to be true. But busting open a round sure seems to loosen a piece of wood's grip on its moisture. Probably has something to do with the insulating quality of the bark, but I don't know.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Any dendrologists in the house?? I know the general old consensus says it helps to split wood to let it season because obviously it opens more surface for loss of moisture, and that makes perfect sense to me, but I know sometimes the counter-intuitive wins.. and I have some different thoughts and have found not so popular ideas on the subject so I want to hear back on them

I am not a "dendrologist".....but I have a Forest Engineer degree since 1981....LOL....

If the water carrying cellular system (xylem) of trees runs in essence with the grain of the tree, would this mean that most of the moisture escapes through the ends of your cuts? I've heard this theory several different places..

It is true that the cross cut will evaporate most of water...the cellular system allows water transportation up in the tree stem, but it is with help of pressure....osmotic pressure through the cell walls...so even if water transports easy through the cell when a tree is alive, it doesn't mean that water just can pour out through the cross cut....water is trapped inside the cells....so when one cell at the open end of the logs dries, the water next to it fill the void...and it is a pretty slow process....millions of cells stacked on top of each other...

Here's my application in theory- Say I buck up a bunch of logs from spring storm damage but I don't have time to split them until fall.. I set them all on their bark sides or possibly on pallets so these water tubes (xylem) are exposed in an open field with lots of flowing air and sunshine, will they dry nearly as fast as if I had them split?

The sap wood is usually saturated with water, and the heart wood is dead wood cell, that is more or less dry.....There is rays that transport water radially too...you do not want the heartwood get water from the sap wood when seasoning.....

The bark is another layer that is hindering in the seasoning process....bark do not have to come off, if the logs are split....

Another thing I thought of- I know there are different water cycles in trees.. so is there a time when the trunk wood of a tree actually contains less water when you cut it? Seems like it would be the fall of winter.. of course any wood cut then would have to be carried over until the next year's winter anyways and if wood from the spring was wet it would be carried over into the next year's winter too so I guess it's an erroneous question but I would like to know.

When I used to cut birch for for fire wood, I could gain a half year of seasoning, if I cut the trees in the spring just before the "mouse ears" sprung out...the the trees would settle all the leaves laying on the ground, and the woul draw a lot of sap and water out of the stem....birch is very hard, not to say impossible, to season without splitting....and I can see the hard woods like oak etc be the same

And- I know the heat of the summer time months are important in the seasoning process.. but I know for a fact that the air is dryest in the winter.. does this pull water out of the wood just as fast as summer time? Obviously not when it's below freezing but still..

In the climate like we had in Sweden (and maybe here in Pacific Northwest), best seasoning is in the early spring before everything starts to get "green".....air humidity is lowest before green trees start vegetating....

If you cut logs very short, let's say 4-8 inches, they would season pretty quick without splitting, but longer logs need to be split to season and not starting to rot.


Air movement through the wood pile is more important than tarping....do not tarp directly on top of wood pile....let tarp sit a foot or two above the pile

I know what most people think, and not to be rude but I don't want to hear a thousand replies about how much anybody has only used the regular old methods or how they think it's the only way. Heck I use the regular old seasoning methods right now anyways. What I would like to hear is feedback from people who understand the theory behind what I'm talking about or have experimented with anything of this nature. I mean feel free to refute it, but I want discussion not just "that's dumb, split it and leave it sit for two years."

I think you are on the right track.....learn how the wood physics work and figure out how to season from that

 

[ropensaddle]

I reall don't think its a cut and dried topic but yes breaking it up will dry it faster. I hve left logs three years in 18 foot sections and had water ozing while splitting however they dried real fast after busting! I would think pre cut they would dry faster than long logs and even faster busted! I usually burn green wood early fall as it is a longer burn and sufficient heat for that time of year. I have odwf and the fle is outside as well so no fire concerns. I only sell dried wood but I can split wood now and our 107 degree heat will dry it in no time.

 

[roberthathaway7]

It means the tree is protecting itself from damage in below freezing temps.

I know the purpose of it, but is the sap down as in the sap has left the crown/extemities where it would have needed it for photosynthesis and such and is now only down in the trunk, or does it mean down as in "down in overall quantity within the entire tree, aka the sap has left the building"? I know it's nit-pickin an old saying but knowing its literal meaning could make quite a difference in some situations

 

[roberthathaway7]

learn how the wood physics work and figure out how to season from that

hey thanks for all the pointed info, I'm pretty sure I've got the wood physics down and as for all of my other random questions, I definitely thank you for the real life experience

I was thinking about putting up cedar posts to put old greenhouse plastic on so the sun would still get through, didn't think about the fact that the extra space would induce better airflow still... I was LUCKily on the right track with that one

 

[blades]

Stripping the bark will aide in drying. Side benny reduces the amount of bugs as that area is their primary home. Down side it is a pain in the ______. Elm and Box Elder will dry much quicker if the bark is removed. Never stack rounds or splits on end as they will wick moisture up if it is available. For any of this ground contact is to be avoided. Sun and wind are your friends. This year, around here, has not been particularly condusive to drying.

 

[mdotis]

Maybe

If you split the wood you break the water carrying cellular system (xylem) of the tree. Because of this damage the wood will dry quicker. Some may even break length Wise and dump out most if not all of the water they are holding. Not sure if this is even on track but just a thought I had the other day when splitting some red oak.

Maybe it is just wishful thinking.

 

[roberthathaway7]

I see where you get the idea but I'm pretty sure you are more separating these "pipes" that run length-wise than breaking them. I mean I'm sure you rip a lot of the on what would be the side surface of split wood but it's technically like ripping a ratio 1 out of 1000. I'm sure it still dries faster split still yet

I haven't heard this mentioned yet but I'm sure the core temperature of a split piece of wood on a summer day rises much faster than a round's, or a log for that matter, which I would think would help the evaporation process

 

[ropensaddle]

Am I the only one who will burn green wood I mean longer burn time but crap I have stuck rounds just cut into my odwf and they burn too.

 

[J.W Younger]

Am I the only one who will burn green wood I mean longer burn time but crap I have stuck rounds just cut into my odwf and they burn too.

I have burned right off of the stump,not by choice but because thats all i had.Especially the 1st few years with the OWB before getting a handle on how much it took to feed that monster.
I've also had all 36" of the flue plugged.
A flue fire in that thing is something too behold,10' blue flames, better than the 4th of july.

 

[ropensaddle]

I have burned right off of the stump,not by choice but because thats all i had.Especially the 1st few years with the OWB before getting a handle on how much it took to feed that monster.
I've also had all 36" of the flue plugged.
A flue fire in that thing is something too behold,10' blue flames, better than the 4th of july.

Lol I start with green then dry hickory and oak when she gets cold my odwf is a wood monster too lol. I split today with the sprinkler on and have 5 or so cords here and six done in early spring and maybe three leftover from last year and two or so in rounds cut and three or so to be cut and ten to fifteen to be split lmfao. here is today!

 

[ropensaddle]

Lol I start with green then dry hickory and oak when she gets cold my odwf is a wood monster too lol. I split today with the sprinkler on and have 5 or so cords here and six done in early spring and maybe three leftover from last year and two or so in rounds cut and three or so to be cut and ten to fifteen to be split lmfao. here is today!

This wood is dry on the inside the logs are 3or 4 years old sap wood is rotten on some of it!
It will be fine in a week or two and for sure by November!