Send me a message when you're ready to sell whichever one, I'm still collecting parts for my next build.If anyone needs a pilot too open check valve let me know ill have one for sale for peanuts after i figure out which one i like better.
Advanced log splitter plumbing question
- Thread starter SemperFiSawguy
- Start date
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On the cheapo aluminum pumps, they work fine and last long. My 16gpm is a China cheapo been on the splitter for ~10years now, first few years I did 10-15 cord a year. More recently I've been closer to 20 cord a year supplying my dad with all his wood. Never had an issue with the pump or the cylinder for that matter.
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
My cylinder is a rugged made chinesium one so ive got no bias there. A cast iron pump from baileys is only $323 + tax/shipping. My new new check valve comes next week and im altering my return plumbing before i install it ill see if those two changes improve anything.
$193.00 for 28pgm
https://ruggedmade.com/28-gpm-two-stage-log-splitter-gear-pump-cbdn-22-7.html
Basically the same pump I have sitting here.
https://ruggedmade.com/28-gpm-two-stage-log-splitter-gear-pump-cbdn-22-7.html
Basically the same pump I have sitting here.
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
I looked at that one, im wondering if its not worth it too spend a little more and get one with a higher efficiency?
I didn't see efficiency ratings for the rugged made pump, similar alloy bodied pump made by cheif is rated at 93% so not loosing anything. Only way to know for sure is to hook up a flow meter and check at pressure and oil up to operating temp. I'm cheap, so like the best bang for my buck.
Karrl
ArboristSite Operative
I think you would be fine with the ruggedmade pump, I bought their 16 gpm as a replacement pump for an old Iron and Oak splitter and it’s been great for the months I’ve had it.
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
I definitely hear you. Im still struggling to find a high efficacy 22gpm thats over 18gpm actual rating. I wonder what 22gpm pump Chris uses on his 28C pro.
Karrl
ArboristSite Operative
The pump on my 40t Countyline splitter is a “25 gpm” pump rated for 22 and 4 gpm on the actual pump case. It runs well on the 429 cc Kohler it came with so I think a 390 Honda would be fine. Only problem is that I can’t find that pump for sale online. It’s a Chinese made Bucher pump, cbdn-22/4jl if you want to look.
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
Have you had any ossues with it? Whats its actual flow rating realy world?
I just upgraded my splitter from 16gpm and 390cc to 28gpm and 420cc. The difference is very noticeable
Pump Upgrade
Pump Upgrade
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
See but what i want to know is whats actual torque and HP output at the shaft for both a new GX390 and that 420CC clone.
I have a hard time seeing a 30cc difference generate so much of an increase that you couldnt possibly run a 28gpm two stage pump with a 390GX especially if i turn the relief down to 2500 or 2700psi. Do the chinese clone strokers really make that much MORE torque..? I dont know that i buy it. But no one seeks to have tried it out at least that i can find. I would definitely agree that at 3000psi the 13hp wouldnt cut it but i dont know that during actual splitting i ever see more then 2500 anyway especially now with a 4.5 inch cylinder over the original 4? My relief is set at 2700psi now. Whats the HP requirment math come out to for the two stages of a 28gpm pump at 2500 or 2700 psi?
The large stage change over is usually between 700 and 900 psi, so it takes virtually no power till you hit the change over to the low stage. Unfortunately there's no straight up calculator for a 2 stage pump that I know of, so you'd have to know the gpm for the second stage, or just go off the mfg reccomendations.
I'll make some assumptions just to humor you though.
If it's a 7gpm high pressure end.
3k 13hp
2.5k 10.2 hp
8gpm
3k 14 hp
2.5k 11.7 hp.
Thats bare minimum hp required.
I'll make some assumptions just to humor you though.
If it's a 7gpm high pressure end.
3k 13hp
2.5k 10.2 hp
8gpm
3k 14 hp
2.5k 11.7 hp.
Thats bare minimum hp required.
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
See? Doesnt that sound like a 390 would work fine as long as the relief is set to 2700 or less? Im thinking YES. Im gonna try it with a barnes/haldex two stage 28gpm pump
I should ammend this, that most general use engines arnt made to run at peek hp rating for long, hence you'll never see a "factory" built splitter with a small engine for pump size on it. Usually you really only want about 80% load on an engine to give some head room.
Worst thats going to happen is the engine will wear out faster or stall out when it hit relief.
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
If i ever wear out this engine i have a kubota two cylinder diesel engine with 300 hours on it from a damaged reefer unit on my shelf that will go on this thing with the 28gpm pump or higher. If only i could find an autocycle valve rated for higher then 25gpm.
The pump maker I used offers both a 22gpm (recommend 12hp) and a 28gpm (16hp)model, but both have the same low vol/high pressure side at 0.465 cu.in/rev. And both come from the factory set to the same hi/lo cutoff pressure. If at high pressure, both are the same, then if 12 HP works for the 22gpm pump, it will for the 28gpm pump too. The only difference to load on the engine is before it kicks out the high vol /low pressure side. The cutoff pressure is adjustable, so if the 28gpm pump did overwhelm the engine, you could just turn down the cutoff pressure.
My pump is rated to 3000psi, but my relief is set at 2250. That reduces max load too. My engine snorts on a heavy load, but it does not slow down more than a couple hundred rpm.
Come to think of it, it snorts just as much on the return stroke, trying to jam 28gpm into the front of my 4” cylinder, and 40+ out the other end. All in high volume / low pressure mode.
Different pumps have different volumes and yours maybe different.
My pump is rated to 3000psi, but my relief is set at 2250. That reduces max load too. My engine snorts on a heavy load, but it does not slow down more than a couple hundred rpm.
Come to think of it, it snorts just as much on the return stroke, trying to jam 28gpm into the front of my 4” cylinder, and 40+ out the other end. All in high volume / low pressure mode.
Different pumps have different volumes and yours maybe different.
Assuming it's a v2203, very popular in refrigeration use. It's ~40hp. Would be pretty well over kill for a 28gpm 2 stage pump. Too small for a single stage pump (30gpm) at 3k psi needs 52hp. Would have to run relief down around 2300 psi. You'd be going the custom sectional valve route for 30gpm and auto cycle function. (It's a double pressure detent valve) big money there. Kinda hits a point of diminishing returns.
Even big processors are in the 5-8 second cycle time. Timberwolfs base model processor with a 22 gpm pump acheaves this, with a custom cylinder rod, I think the 4" cylinder uses a 3.5" rod and the 5" cylinder uses a 4.5" rod. All the speed is in the retract. Still using a 25 gpm prince auto cycle valve.
So really your cycle times arnt that bad, with what you currently have. Much more then that you're going to be spending some serious money for what realistically amounts to little gains in practical uses. The processor I worked on the most took 3 guys to keep up with it and was powered by a 100hp John deere. 5" cylinder and I'm very sure it was close to a 5 second cycle time.
Even big processors are in the 5-8 second cycle time. Timberwolfs base model processor with a 22 gpm pump acheaves this, with a custom cylinder rod, I think the 4" cylinder uses a 3.5" rod and the 5" cylinder uses a 4.5" rod. All the speed is in the retract. Still using a 25 gpm prince auto cycle valve.
So really your cycle times arnt that bad, with what you currently have. Much more then that you're going to be spending some serious money for what realistically amounts to little gains in practical uses. The processor I worked on the most took 3 guys to keep up with it and was powered by a 100hp John deere. 5" cylinder and I'm very sure it was close to a 5 second cycle time.
SemperFiSawguy
ArboristSite Member
Yeah who knows this thing has kind of morphed into a creature of sorts from when i bought it, im still somehow money ahead over buying a commercial built unit with the same features thus far. When i wear out this 4.5 inch cylinder with a 3 inch rod ill order a custom one from baileys with the larger rod diameter. The new bolt ons arrive on monday so i will report back with the updates and their effect i have some cool pieces of plumbing sitting on my work bench right now im excited to plumb in at the same time. I think 7.5 seconds is a reasonable expectation with these components once i get everything put together.
Another component that interests me greatly is this little gadget timberwolf started using. Has anyone here played with one of these?
I thank all of you for your continued participation in this thread its been very nice to have people to bounce these thoughts off of. Hopefully they help someone else at somepoint as well.
Im picking up 32 more ICB totes on monday for $20 a peice, hoping to get them all filled before spring!!
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