Advice for finding an arborist in Central Florida (east coast) post-hurricane?

[buffytms]

Hi! With all the arborist work needed in Florida after the hurricanes I am having a heck of a time getting an arborist to come take a gander at a 30'+ ft. tall Canary Island Date Palm which may have been damaged in the hurricanes.

Do you have any advice for a condominium who cannot get anyone to come look at a tree which we are trying to determine (1) if it was even damaged (what we "see" may have existed since it was planted 20 years ago), (2) if it was damaged can it be saved? We definitely need some expert advice. We can't let it go on un-inspected as it may be ready for the head to fall off then we'd be having a really bad day - we just don't know the state of the tree. We've gotten three unsolicited opinions from 3 landscaping people, but we really need the *experts* - you!

Normally we'd just take it down to be on the safe side, but my understanding is this is a *very* expensive tree and would be awful to cut it down and find out that it was just fine as it was.

I can't say money is no object, but it is not even brought up since I cannot get anyone to return my calls or e-mails. The one live voice I reached sounded heartbroken as there is so much work to do and not enough bodies he simply could not even say "I may be able to come out in a few weeks.".

So, is there any way to intrigue an arborist into taking a job? Or, do we wait until (1) the tree dies and obviously needs to come down or (2) the arborists can catch their breath (months??)

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
buffytms

 

[MasterBlaster]

It's a shame no one will come out and take a look.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

If you want a Board Certified Master Arborist to inspect it, I'm going to Clearwater Nov 11th, and could be persuaded to make a detour. Especially if the surf's up.

www.BetterTreeCare.com

 

[buffytms]

I definitely need a day at the beach after three hurricanes. No rest for the weary though.

Mr. Meilleur, that is quite a detour (Cocoa Beach) and its been Lake Atlantic this year except for the hurricanes (and we don’t need any more of that now do we). But, if you are serious, let me know and I will contact you off-line.

Thanks in advance!

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I wish I knew more about palms.

What kind of damage could they get at this time of year that couldn't wait a few months for assistance - or could it even be corrected?

 

[Treeman14]

Can you post any pictures or give us some symptoms? The most common problems with the CIDP is overwatering and the Giant Palm Weevil.

This link has some excellent information from the University of Florida:

http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/orn/palmetto_weevil.htm

 

[buffytms]

Attached are some *very low resolution* pictures of “the problem”. I can try to get better pictures with a better camera, but the area is somewhat hidden from view.

After the hurricanes we saw that the top of the tree, near the crown had a constriction (really, an area where there are no frond stems). Unfortunately, no one remembers what the palm up there looked like before the hurricanes, so opinions vary with some saying that the “constriction” was caused by the planting 20 years ago, opposite opinions are that the neck “cracked” during the hurricane. Other regular palms on our property were “beheaded” and others fell down during the hurricane. We are concerned that if there is truly damage, the west winter winds will finish off the tree and the head will fall on someone (ouch!).

We can’t really see the damage (need a tree climber and arborist) to determine what is happening.

The weevil scares me, but I also don’t remember “the before”. And, I can’t say that there is frond damage like that described. But, it is watered everyday – I guess that needs to stop! However, maybe this damage to the neck is a symptom of the weevil…

One side note, in the pictures I show the roots. Anyone know if the way the root ball is supposed to look like that?

BTW, I’d like to say that your site is GREAT and you all are so nice to help homeowners in this forum.

Thanks much!
buffytms

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by buffytms
Unfortunately, no one remembers what the palm up there looked like before the hurricanes, so opinions vary with some saying that the “constriction” was caused by the planting 20 years ago, opposite opinions are that the neck “cracked” during the hurricane.

This is common--no one inspected the tree before the storm, so now the post-storm inspections are tinged with fear. A lot of needless removals take place because of this. If you do have someone come by, please have them inspect all your trees, and schedule regular reinspections.

Maybe between help from this site and UF Extension you'll know more about this tree. But onsite is the only way to get a thorough look at the entire grounds.

Yesterday I pruned a hickory away from a garage. I'd contracted to do a crown inspection at the same time, so I climbed to the top or the tree. At the top a major lead branch was cracked, twisted and hanging over the house. That defect could not have been seen from the bround, even by an expert in winter.

An ounce of prevention can save you trees and money later on.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i'm no palm expert; but we see root balls like that that seem healthy; and palms are pretty tough, sometimes almost a reptile of the climate. Including the scars of olde wounds. Familiarity with tree would be best, especially with all that olde growth of old fronds not trimmed.

Great link Brett thanks.

If falling damage is the only issue, could it be loosely tethered to eye bolt or railing (after determined strong enough), at least till someone looks at it? So as not to restrict or constrict, but limit amount of motion in buffering catch. The higher the support is the more strain is taken off of support and placed on stalk at loading; also reverse is true; a lower support takes load off stalk and more on support (to a degree).

 

[Treeman14]

I only got the first picture. The others never opened. That looks like another Senegal Date Palm, NOT a Canary Island Date. I can't see any obvious defects in that pic.

 

[buffytms]

Mr. Meilleur and Mr. Spyder You are oh so correct in your observations and recommendations.

“If you do have someone come by, please have them inspect all your trees, and schedule regular re-inspections.”

“Familiarity with tree would be best, especially with all that olde growth of old fronds not trimmed.”

I agree 1000%! Our landscaping is direly neglected through both utter neglect, lack of caring, and penny-wise but pound foolish owners and construction. We finally finished a 2.5 year Balcony re-construction project which hit the pocketbook pretty hard and the landscaping was severely damaged. We are now in the process of rebuilding the landscape.

I am but a lowly 2nd year Condo Board Member who volunteered to find an arborist for this tree since either (2) no one wanted to be bothered with it or (2) “we don’t want to know the answer” mentality [since it is in theory expensive and no one wanted it to come down]. I have only been told the species (and it looked like a CIDP) and only been told there was concern for the “constriction”. I can’t in good conscious do nothing and hope for the best. Incidentally, We had another palm on the property leaning over the drive precariously for three weeks after the storm. I said a little prayer each time I went under it that it didn’t fall and kill someone.

For 2 years the owners have complained that the palm fronds need to be trimmed along the whole property, and I am sure that it contributed to the downing of at least three of our trees during the storms, but nothing has been done. Meanwhile, the “landscaping committee” wants to buy a $30k to replace the landscaping. I argue that it is ridiculous since we can’t even take care of the plants and palms we have now, why spend $30K and let everything die or be neglected again? Why not use that money, trim the palms, inspect for safety hazards, remove the invasive vines and trees on the dunes (another story) first? Then, lets slowly rebuild the landscape. So, while I have an agreement to bring an arborist on board to inspect this tree and take necessary action, I cannot get consensus on any other aspect of the landscaping.

Sorry for the rant, but I fell I have somewhat of a sympathetic ear here. I will try not to take advantage of it.

I apologize again for the picture quality. I cannot seem to get any other angle to take the photo where you could better see the “constriction.” You see my dilemma, we truly need an arborist to come inspect this tree. The one arborist I spoke to on the phone, since he was so busy he couldn’t begin to guess when he would be able to come out, at least gave me some free advice. He said “when in doubt, take it down.” I have to agree if we cannot get a professional out here to inspect it. When I brought that back to the Board, they vehemently opposed this since it was a “very expensive Canary Island Date Palm.”

Mr. Man, your observations are very interesting! A Senegal Palm instead. It that is the case, and it is a “cheaper” tree, and we still cannot get anyone to come look at it, I would recommend to take it down and perhaps get consensus. As nice a tree as it is, a persons life is worth more even if it is a CIDP.

What are your opinions?

Thanks again for a VERY insightful and helpful exchange!

buffytms

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by buffytms
It that is the case, and it is a “cheaper” tree, and we still cannot get anyone to come look at it, I would recommend to take it down and perhaps get consensus. As nice a tree as it is, a persons life is worth more even if it is a CIDP.

What are your opinions?

"When in doubt, cut it out" is the oldest mantra among the fearmongering hacker set of tree people. It is the central tenet of the utility arborist's creed. There are always ways to gain information and resolving doubt to an acceptable level. If your palms were full of dead fronds and other trash then yes that was a factor in your losses.

YOu can get someone to look at your landscape in a couple of weeks. I'd be very interested in seeing the plants on the dunes as well. What was the $30k proposed to do--replace lost plants?

 

[buffytms]

Mr. Meilleur,

I will continue my quest for the Central Florida arborist.

As for the dunes, here is a picture of the invasive vines (I’ll post only one since you can’t see more than that). I took out as much as I could from about 4 trees. Brutal work. But, it was me doing it or no one. They too are growing back rigorously. You’ll see seem “good vines” (railroad vine) mixed with the “bad vines”. And, of course, I cannot remember what they are off the top of my head, but I know them when I see them. They have these little “pigs tails” that wrap around everything making it a horrible matted mess within the palms. I made sure not to damage the good vines.

We had someone chop down the brazilin pepper trees and they are coming back, but it is a endless cycle.

I was promised our maintenance folks would do this once a month, but the hurricanes put everyone’s workload off schedule and we are still catching up. The dunes are low priority.

Again, apologies for the low resolution.

Thanks,
buffytms

 

[buffytms]

p.s the $30k was to replace neglected nearly dead plants (and some fairly robust plants that I personnaly like but not to other's tastes) throughout the grounds. This was all in works PRE-hurricane. The hurricanes didn't do much more damage than we had already done ourselves through poor maintenance. Like pushing a rope....

Thanks,
buffytms

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by buffytms
some fairly robust plants that I personnaly like but not to other's tastes

Aesthetics are not a reliable indicator of plant value, especially when people do not know what a well-maintained plant of the species looks like, because they have only seen abused and neglected specimens.

Were the pepper stumps painted with hebicide right after bieng cut?
PM or email if you want to see a Central Florida arborist.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Having a local around familiar is probably a good usual plan; but is flexible reality to have someone farther look in, working on TreeTime of slow adjsutments.

Noone else here will try to overide Guy's offer, cuz he's probably the best you are gonna do here or anywhere. i'm not sure how few folks can put that "ISA Board Certified Master Arborist" after their signature on the face of the planet; probably only one here. You aren't gonna do better; especially on the amount of information and research spoken on initial consultations, sent afterwards.

i think you should take up Guy on his offer during one of his visits to his brother in Florida etc. to really get a view of what you have; even if someone else locally were to take the ball from there at some future point. That person would in turn; probably learn a few things from you. This will especially be true going into properties that can encompass a wider variety of species; really testing the comprehensiveness of someone's background in the total picture. With just a doctor's touch here and there; a grounds crew that is stable can serve as historians somewhat to complement i think.

Or, something like that,

 

[Treeman14]

I looked at the original pics again, and it is definitely not a Canariensis. Its a Senegal, still an expensive palm and worth keeping. The root flare is typical of the species and not a cause for concern. The constricted area you speak of appears to be nothing more than a section of trunk with no "boots" on it. Rodents often build nests behind the boots and the high winds probaby knocked them off. Again, this is not a structural problem. From what I can see, this palm simply needs a good cleaning, removal of dead and dying fronds, and removal of loose boots. I can see no reason to remove it. :angel:

BTW, the Giant Palm Weevil does not appear to be a problem with this species.

Mr. Muiller, no offense intended, but are you familiar with Pheonix spp? I believe you live beyond their range. Perhaps buffytms would be better off with a local expert who is acquainted with local flora.

 

[buffytms]

Mr. Meilleur,

Check for a PM.

I did not mean to imply (and I certainly didn't mean) that I was only looking for a Central Florida Arborist. I figured CB was pretty far from NC and Clearwater so not worth the effort to those so in demand. If I could get a local it would be easier on the coordination and your automobile, but if I could get a local I would not have posted the question on “how do I get an arborist here”? ;-)

Stump killer was indeed applied to the pepper trees, but my understanding is that this inhibits the pepper trees, but they are insidious and a constant maintenance nightmare.

Mr. Man14, how exactly does one distinguish a Senegal from a CIDP? Looking around the internet it seems that CIDP has a thick trunk and ours is somewhat thinner; a CIDP does not mention suckers but ours seems to have them. Is that a gross level of how they are distinguished?

Your eyes are excellent that you could actually see the area with the boots missing with my lousy pictures. I will go back and confirm that this is the area of concern. I do not have an eye for this tree yet so I do not quite know what I am looking at or for.

I am 3 years new to Florida. Colorado and then Maryland are the extent of my knowledge.

Thanks much,
buffytms

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Treeman14
are you familiar with Pheonix spp?
Not intimately.
I believe you live beyond their range. Perhaps buffytms would be better off with a local expert who is acquainted with local flora.

An excellent point, Brett. An expert who works regularly with these plants would be ideal. I lived in Key West for 7 years, and have worked in the Cape Canaveral area too. I have gaps in tree knowledge everywhere I go(even at home!), but I can contact a local Registered Consulting Arborist/ palm expert friend to tell me whatever I can't find out from UF extension.

Extension services are an excellent source of information that YOU have paid for with your taxes; I always recommend that people check for information there. True, sometimes their reports may be 2nd-hand and outdated, but still they're the first source to consult.