Advice on dead wood rigging

[arbor pro]

I have a tricky pruning job to perform on a 80' cottonwood. Much of the top 20-25' is dead. Tree seems structurally sound but definitely has some issues as about 1/4 of it is dead or declining. It provides good shade though so, HO has asked me to prune out dead.

Problems are: 1) can access only with my 55' towable boom or climb. No larger (taller) truck can get to it nor could a big crane, 2) dead limbs are reachable with my 55' boom but will require rigging or I would have to climb the dead branches to remove them as they have the potential to hit house or garage if I let them freefall.

I don't trust climbing the dead branches and there are no surrounding live branches or other trees to tie into so I am thinking I will have to work out of the 55' lift. That means rigging down 25' tall dead branches and by rigging, I mean a slow hinge with a rig point right below my cut. What scares me is the resulting jerk once the branch falls. Past experience tells me to expect the dead branch to break apart once it slaps into other parts of the tree and that shaking action might even cause other branches to break off.

Wondering how some of you climbers would approach it. Sorry no pictures - just imagine 8" dia max wood at about 55' narrowing to about 4-5" at 70' and just slender branches above that. Not much to rig from and no way to easily set the rigging unless I climb up the dead branches. If I do get a higher rigging point set, it would likely be off of the dead central leader about 70' up where the branch is about 5" diameter (at around 55', it's about 8" dia and dead where it attaches to the main trunk). I'd have to rig some pretty small stuff but as I said, just getting those branches rigged would be difficult. Not much to speedline off of. I do think I have plenty of clearance to rig the entire 25' long pieces but it's the jerk and the slap against the tree that causes me concern as I can see pieces breaking off and spearheading through the house or garage roof and I can't take that risk.

Thanks for any help.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Is there any drop zone that you could notch it and drop the 25 feet?
Jeff

 

[treemandan]

Could you slow hinge the limbs onto a zipline? That would absorb some shock and would direct the breaking/shattering limbs away from the targets below.

 

[lego1970]

I would try charging enough in order to rent a 90' genie lift, however if that's not an option the only thing I can think of is maybe lay some plywood on the area of the roof that may get peppered if that 25' piece breaks apart. However even that will be a lot of labor and then you have to find a way to keep the plywood from sliding off.

I read in one of the ISA letters where some guy strapped a couple of 2x4's or 4x4's in order to climb up a dead section. I guess he fashioned it kinda like a leg splint. He took the bottom section of the lumber and achored it to the good section of wood with load straps, then climbed up to where he needed to do his work. In your case it sounds like you would need 16' sections to make it work, which would be a job in itself just to mount. Personally there is no way you could pay me enough to try that, but it's a suggestion and worked for somebody else.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I would try charging enough in order to rent a 90' genie lift, however if that's not an option the only thing I can think of is maybe lay some plywood on the area of the roof that may get peppered if that 25' piece breaks apart. However even that will be a lot of labor and then you have to find a way to keep the plywood from sliding off.

I read in one of the ISA letters where some guy strapped a couple of 2x4's or 4x4's in order to climb up a dead section. I guess he fashioned it kinda like a leg splint. He took the bottom section of the lumber and achored it to the good section of wood with load straps, then climbed up to where he needed to do his work. In your case it sounds like you would need 16' sections to make it work, which would be a job in itself just to mount. Personally there is no way you could pay me enough to try that, but it's a suggestion and worked for somebody else.

A Spyder would make all his troubles go away!
Jeff

 

[UnityArborist]

ZIP them out

Could you slow hinge the limbs onto a zipline? That would absorb some shock and would direct the breaking/shattering limbs away from the targets below.

:agree2:

 

[The Lawn Shark]

What about using a gas pole saw to give you additional reach for cutting out of the lift. climb, set your rigging to where you can make the cut with pole saw. Then return to lift for the cut maybe that extra 12' to 15' higher would be less break apart once it comes back at the tree and slaps......
I know your problem....I took a chance a couple times and got lucky not having it slap the tree and break into a bunch of peices....What i did on a 20' section....set my block right below my cut and had another tag line about 10' higher than the cut and when it was cut with a slow nocth, had my guy on the porty let it run a good bit, kind of free falling and the guy with the tag line was a good50' away from the tree pulling on a butterfly knot running away from the tree and the remainder of the tag line ran out and around another tree where at that point I had another guy running back toward the tree taking up slack from the first guy......once the guy running the porty brings it to a slow stop it all worked out to where the limb was about 10/15' out away from trunk and nothing all broke up. Did this for about 5/6 limbs.

 

[arbor pro]

I have a tricky pruning job to perform on a 80' cottonwood. Much of the top 20-25' is dead. Tree seems structurally sound but definitely has some issues as about 1/4 of it is dead or declining. It provides good shade though so, HO has asked me to prune out dead.

Problems are: 1) can access only with my 55' towable boom or climb. No larger (taller) truck can get to it nor could a big crane, 2) dead limbs are reachable with my 55' boom but will require rigging or I would have to climb the dead branches to remove them as they have the potential to hit house or garage if I let them freefall.
I don't trust climbing the dead branches and there are no surrounding live branches or other trees to tie into so I am thinking I will have to work out of the 55' lift. That means rigging down 25' tall dead branches and by rigging, I mean a slow hinge with a rig point right below my cut. What scares me is the resulting jerk once the branch falls. Past experience tells me to expect the dead branch to break apart once it slaps into other parts of the tree and that shaking action might even cause other branches to break off.

Wondering how some of you climbers would approach it. Sorry no pictures - just imagine 8" dia max wood at about 55' narrowing to about 4-5" at 70' and just slender branches above that. Not much to rig from and no way to easily set the rigging unless I climb up the dead branches. If I do get a higher rigging point set, it would likely be off of the dead central leader about 70' up where the branch is about 5" diameter (at around 55', it's about 8" dia and dead where it attaches to the main trunk). I'd have to rig some pretty small stuff but as I said, just getting those branches rigged would be difficult. Not much to speedline off of. I do think I have plenty of clearance to rig the entire 25' long pieces but it's the jerk and the slap against the tree that causes me concern as I can see pieces breaking off and spearheading through the house or garage roof and I can't take that risk.

Thanks for any help.

As mentioned in my previous post, nothing to zipline (speedline as I referred to it) off of - just more dead branches that I don't trust to hold any weight. Very limited dropzone below the tree but using my stihl gas polesaw to try to cut shorter pieces may be the only solution. Problem of course is that those saws don't cut so great on vertical dead wood if you're trying to cut them from directly below you. If I was off to the side, yes. Even then, a 12' piece cans till punch a hole through a roof just as easily as a 25' piece.

A taller genie or sypder would be nice but nobody around here rents anything bigger than 60'. Thanks for your brainstorming on this one. Going to be a stressful job that's for sure. I hate rigging dead wood - especially cottonwoods. Those things just explode upon impact.

 

[D Mc]

Arbor pro, you are correct in your assessment of the situation being a concern. Dead cottonwoods have no reliability. Are you sure you can't get a longer stick in there? Check with local truss companies. They will often have a lightweight (small) crane with a long stick.

I have used similar lightweight cranes by just tying onto the jib, not the load line, and using it as a high point. You can work out a 2" dead cottonwood limb if you are tied in above it. Might be worth modifying the access to increase your safety.

Dave

 

[mic687]

Is it possible to tip and butt tie with separate lines so you can lift the tip while controlling the swing of the butt and then lower it butt first. Cotton woods are snappy even when green so slow and easy is the order of the day when working with them anyway just a thought.

 

[arbor pro]

Is it possible to tip and butt tie with separate lines so you can lift the tip while controlling the swing of the butt and then lower it butt first. Cotton woods are snappy even when green so slow and easy is the order of the day when working with them anyway just a thought.

Nothing to rig the tips to. If I rig the latterals to the central leader, two problems arise: 1) getting a line tied to the latteral tips when I can't reach them with the boom and can't climb them because too dangerous. I would have to throw the line to them and secure with a slip knot and I'm nervous that even a slight yank of the rope to secure the slip knot might pull an entire branch down. 2) rigging to the central leader is equally dangerous. To control the tips of lateral branches, I would have to rig them onto the leader where it is only a few inches diameter and very dead. I just don't trust it.

No way to get a big crane in there. Two other trees in the way. Can't fit under and can't reach over. I can sneak my genie lift under their canopies but nothing much bigger will fit into the area. A 75' elevator bucket truck MIGHT do the trick but I don't have one and can't rent one locally.

Besides, customer gave me the impression that $750 for the prune job seemed high. If I bring in a bigger lift or crane, I'm going to double that number. Fine by me but customer will probably just let nature take its course and let his insurance pay for the roof repairs.

The more I think about this job the more I'm thinking I'd just like to walk away. Customer still hasn't signed contract so there's always that option.

 

[mic687]

There comes a point when you realize their is just no easy way to do it. Price it accordingly, if you get it good for you if not pray for the poor bugger that does. The job will only suck until it is done and then you can look back and say I really am the best!

 

[pdqdl]

As has been mentioned: cottonwoods snap off when green, so I would suggest that there is no way to slow hinge one when dead.

DMc got it right: once dead, they are quickly decayed and completely unreliable/unpredictable.

I would not do it unless I could rig some sort of overhead tie-in from a light crane, or perhaps two lines from higher & taller trees nearby. I am not sure that you couldn't do it by erecting your own vertical spar to hang from, much like a mast on a sailboat, but it all sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

I would suggest quoting what was necessary to do it right with the right equipment, then do without if the customer doesn't want to spend the bucks.

I hate climbing dead trees; for the most part...I don't.

You might have some luck getting tip ties accomplished with a throwline pulling up a rope; then attach with running bowline. Pole pruner on the end of the bucket can also be used to set tip ties in a similar manner. Slow, but effective.

 

[mic687]

:agree2:
Pdqdl is correct I have had little luck slow hinge cutting cottonwoods or poplar the smaller branches just snap off soon after you start cutting.

 

[arbor pro]

:agree2:
Pdqdl is correct I have had little luck slow hinge cutting cottonwoods or poplar the smaller branches just snap off soon after you start cutting.

Me too. Soon as they meet any resistance, it's like a grenade went off inside of 'em. Branches exploding everywhere!

Customer just called me and got me off the hook. He'd rather spend his money removing it than pruning it but doesn't have the money for the removal at this time so going to 'wait and see' and let nature take its course or give me a call in a couple of years if he's still living there.

In other words, he figures give it a good wind storm and let his insurance take care of it since his deductible is less than the cost of removal...

Fine by me. Easier to cut up when it's lying on or in his house.

 

[pdqdl]

I had a similar problem recently, with a similar outcome.

An inlaw (poor) wanted a cheap price to drop a giant dead shingle oak in the back yard. No access, the tree had an enormous lean with signs of decay & weakness at the base. It was over the secondary lines, but the power company would rather take the lines down than climb the trees and remove the overhanging branches.

I told him, no way was I going to climb it. I took an excellent climber that sometimes worked for me to look at it; he said he would do it if I was the groundman. We quoted $600.

Thank goodness we never got asked to do the tree. He later reported that it came down on it's own. Prior to coming down, this fellow kept telling me what a sturdy tree it was, despite being dead.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Well, I have thought about this more because I hate to walk away, so, I got a plan. I would PM 'Stihl-o matic', I think he knows cops. I would get him to hook me up with that "net" they can shoot at a guy. I would get up there high as I can and shoot that "net" over the top and cut and hope for the best! Ha!, On the other hand, is that fair to the insurance co.?
Jeff

 

[jefflovstrom]

I had a similar problem recently, with a similar outcome.

An inlaw (poor) wanted a cheap price to drop a giant dead shingle oak in the back yard. No access, the tree had an enormous lean with signs of decay & weakness at the base. It was over the secondary lines, but the power company would rather take the lines down than climb the trees and remove the overhanging branches.

I told him, no way was I going to climb it. I took an excellent climber that sometimes worked for me to look at it; he said he would do it if I was the groundman. We quoted $600.

Thank goodness we never got asked to do the tree. He later reported that it came down on it's own. Prior to coming down, this fellow kept telling me what a sturdy tree it was, despite being dead.

Makes you wonder how many of your "nine lives" you have used.
Jeff

 

[pdqdl]

ALL of them. My number is sure to come up any day.

Have you ever read this thread? http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=123695

Every single day is a great day for me, no matter how many problems I confront. I wake up happy to be here, and I go to bed very late, sorry to let go of the day.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Have you ever read this thread? http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=123695


Yup, not interested in that thread too much.
Jeff,