Aftermarket slugs and jugs nmurph please respond?

[Vibes]

I've been watching the discussions lately about the use of the various aftermarket parts and have watched some of the opinions getting a little heated. I've read pro's and cons from people on this site who's opinions I've come to value through the years. I'm trying to tread litely here because I have also just read the squables from respected members here who have called out the use of the aftermarket parts.

I read the closed post below with great interest and have a question to ask. Why was it closed?

We have had good (great) threads lately from modified mark and blsnelling about their problems with these aftermarket kits. Now theres a guy who apperantly hasn't posted much here, who bought a rebuilt saw from one of the reputable builders on this site, who many posters on here always tell the newbies to" just contact him and get one of his 346 rebuilds" from. Well this guy did!! And he has reported problems that have been reported from highly respected members and are consistant with their problems with these aftermarket kits and the thread gets locked. Again I ask "WHY?"

Sounds like to me the guy threw a chain and stripped a bar stud. Newby!! Big deal!! The saw went back and new bar stud replaced. Common problem with the hamhanded.Good jester on the sellers behalf, but then the guy gets his saw back back and runs it for a whopping 15 hrs and it cu cu's the bed. The guy shows pictures of the failure, and everyone jumps up and says the guy did something wrong. I reserve my opinions to what happened here till others with more in the know reply. BUT I'm not gonna be the guy who jumps to the conclusion that it has to be operator error ,especially after lots of people tell said newbies to '' just get one of those rebuilds from so and so" and don't buy one of those crappy clamshell saws.

Like I said I'm walking on eggshells here and am not throwing bombs around, but I feal that this issue needs to be kept in the forefront. Sorry nmurph for bringing your name up, but I'm not the first to bring it up.

If this site is going to maintane its integrity, shutting down threads from people who come to it for advice, and get steared in one direction or another, and in their mind feel they'ved been wronged, and post about it and it gets shut down. Then that doesn't look good!!

 

[Gologit]

I've been watching the discussions lately about the use of the various aftermarket parts and have watched some of the opinions getting a little heated. I've read pro's and cons from people on this site who's opinions I've come to value through the years. I'm trying to tread litely here because I have also just read the squables from respected members here who have called out the use of the aftermarket parts.

I read the closed post below with great interest and have a question to ask. Why was it closed?

We have had good (great) threads lately from modified mark and blsnelling about their problems with these aftermarket kits. Now theres a guy who apperantly hasn't posted much here, who bought a rebuilt saw from one of the reputable builders on this site, who many posters on here always tell the newbies to" just contact him and get one of his 346 rebuilds" from. Well this guy did!! And he has reported problems that have been reported from highly respected members and are consistant with their problems with these aftermarket kits and the thread gets locked. Again I ask "WHY?"

Sounds like to me the guy threw a chain and stripped a bar stud. Newby!! Big deal!! The saw went back and new bar stud replaced. Common problem with the hamhanded.Good jester on the sellers behalf, but then the guy gets his saw back back and runs it for a whopping 15 hrs and it cu cu's the bed. The guy shows pictures of the failure, and everyone jumps up and says the guy did something wrong. I reserve my opinions to what happened here till others with more in the know reply. BUT I'm not gonna be the guy who jumps to the conclusion that it has to be operator error ,especially after lots of people tell said newbies to '' just get one of those rebuilds from so and so" and don't buy one of those crappy clamshell saws.

Like I said I'm walking on eggshells here and am not throwing bombs around, but I feal that this issue needs to be kept in the forefront. Sorry nmurph for bringing your name up, but I'm not the first to bring it up.

If this site is going to maintane its integrity, shutting down threads from people who come to it for advice, and get steared in one direction or another, and in their mind feel they'ved been wronged, and post about it and it gets shut down. Then that doesn't look good!!

You better take a deep breath, calm down a little, and go back and read my reasons for closing the threads. It had nothing to do with maintaining the integrity of the site...that takes care of itself if we all play fair... it had everything to do with allowing nmurph the time and opportunity to tell his side of the story.
I believe I made myself clear about that in the last post of each thread that I closed.

The OP and I have talked and it's perfectly alright with him if we do it that way. He's trying to handle this in a gentlemanly manner and is willing to give nmurph his turn to respond.

Are you clear on this now? If not, let me know.

 

[Jacob J.]

If this site is going to maintane its integrity, shutting down threads from people who come to it for advice, and get steared in one direction or another, and in their mind feel they'ved been wronged, and post about it and it gets shut down. Then that doesn't look good!!

Our current crop of moderators are some of the best I've seen in all the time I've been on this site and I've been here longer than most.

You're just shooting yourself in the foot with a thread like this. The people involved in the transaction you're referencing need to work it out.

 

[z71mike]

I'll back that up. This is the only forum I've remained on consistently because of its lack of B.S. that many other boards are plagued with.

opcorn:

 

[DSS]

I'll back that up. This is the only forum I've remained on consistently because of its lack of B.S. that many other boards are plagued with.

opcorn:

Don't ever go to off topic.

 

[Sprintcar]

Don't ever go to off topic.

Same here!

 

[blsnelling]

My Dad has a 346 I got from nmurph. It came with an AM topend and one of the circlips let go. He promptly sent me a replacement topend. No problems at all. He's always been great to deal with.

 

[Saw Dr.]

Our current crop of moderators are some of the best I've seen in all the time I've been on this site and I've been here longer than most.

Couldn't agree more.

FYI, even if the sponsor is in the wrong, THEY PAY TO BE HERE. The rest of us pay nothing for quite a bit of good. I can understand why the mods want to give the sponsors more than adequate time to state their case. Neal is a VERY stand-up guy. I have dealt with him several times over the years. If the buyer in question has a legitimate issue, it will be made right.

 

[justtools]

It seems that these aftermarket circlips are having some problems. Why wouldnt the builder just use OEM clips. You could buy alot of clips for the price of a few topends.

 

[Gologit]

Couldn't agree more.

FYI, even if the sponsor is in the wrong, THEY PAY TO BE HERE. The rest of us pay nothing for quite a bit of good. I can understand why the mods want to give the sponsors more than adequate time to state their case. Neal is a VERY stand-up guy. I have dealt with him several times over the years. If the buyer in question has a legitimate issue, it will be made right.

Well said. I've been talking to Neal tonight and I think he's going to settle the problem with his customer through PMs. I told him that I'd re open the thread for him to state his side of things but he doesn't want to see another train wreck...which is usually what those threads become.

I've also been talking to the OP and I think he and Neal can reach an agreement, among themselves, without starting another argumentative shouting match. We've all seen those and they do absolutely no good.

 

[mdavlee]

It seems that these aftermarket circlips are having some problems. Why wouldnt the builder just use OEM clips. You could buy alot of clips for the price of a few topends.

Some of the aftermarket pistons won't accept the oem clips. The grooves on some aren't the same width and depth of the aftermarket. It's not as simple as just using oem clips on everything.

 

[Jacob J.]

Some of the aftermarket pistons won't accept the oem clips. The grooves on some aren't the same width and depth of the aftermarket. It's not as simple as just using oem clips on everything.

But it is as simple as finding a better clip that will work. The internet is a great resource, all a guy has to do is a little research.

 

[Modifiedmark]

I got a question. I see we all have our own feedback scores listed for each member now and I assume its for the new auction setup correct?

I'm wondering if thats a good idea, then why dont we have a feedback score or such for the site sponsors and there business's?

Just thinkin out loud...

 

[kmcinms]

Some of the aftermarket pistons won't accept the oem clips. The grooves on some aren't the same width and depth of the aftermarket. It's not as simple as just using oem clips on everything.

That sucks, because I've been reading here for a good long time, that all you need to do, if you decide to run an aftermarket top end, is use OEM circlips and either OEM or Caber rings on them and you will be good to go. Now I hear this small tid bit of info on this particular piston. I hope we find out the manufacturer of this slug so we can mark that one off the list of options until they come up with OEM quality circlips to fit them.
I'm with the mods here on this one, I don't have a problem with the thread being locked under the circumstances he stated. It is good to get this out in the open to get the skinny on what aftermarket parts not to buy. Not so much who not to buy rebuilt saws from.
The builder will come in and straighten this out. There is just no reason for him to have to come back here with several pages of mess slung all over the board in the mean time.

 

[Monadnock]

This has little to do with all the drama here tonight but...

I have very limited knowledge of engine mechanics. Never knew the wrist pin(I'm assuming) was held in place by those 2 snap ring looking clips. I understand they're relatively low mass and made of very springy metal but I'm surprised any clip like that can withstand the violent dynamics of the movement of a 2 stroke piston. Seems like they would immediately deform and fail.

Learn something new every day.

Thinking out loud

 

[Jacob J.]

Some of the aftermarket pistons won't accept the oem clips. The grooves on some aren't the same width and depth of the aftermarket. It's not as simple as just using oem clips on everything.

That sucks, because I've been reading here for a good long time, that all you need to do, if you decide to run an aftermarket top end, is use OEM circlips and either OEM or Caber rings on them and you will be good to go. Now I hear this small tid bit of info on this particular piston.

Mike's comment wasn't directed at this particular piston, he was just shooting from the hip.

Here's the reality- none of this is rocket science. Do some research, figure out what's going to work and what isn't going to work, and make it happen. If you don't know anything about the hardness of spring steel- take the time to read about. If you're not sure about end gap- look it up.

A discussion about aftermarket parts is fine and dandy. But the OP of this thread started it with the intention of flogging a transaction which isn't his business and isn't ours either. It's the sole property and business of the two people involved.

 

[Vibes]

I'm calm and my heart rate is just fine.

And I think I stated my displeasure at the members who bashed a "newbie" in a calm manner. I do apologize not realizing that the thread was only a few hours old. I'll wait for a reply from the seller.

But I'm still gonna stick up for this guy. He was pointed in the direction of the seller of the saw in question, and pointed that way from others on this site. Check the guys posts. He's a self proclaimed newbie. I probably shouldn't have brought up the integrity thing with the site, but just to abrubtly close the thread after the guy got publicly bashed is in my opinion, well, a little abrubt.

May be I should've of asked what was the make of the aftermarket parts that were used on this rebuild, and would you ever stake your reputation on those parts again. Like I think I've been reading on here lately, hasn't there been several threads on the quality of aftermarket parts? And haven't those threads been to the point of these kits?

You said you dicussed it with the seller, and I guess it was a private tranaction so I'll leave it at that and limp away with a bullet hole in my foot.

 

[woodgrenade]

Some of the aftermarket pistons won't accept the oem clips. The grooves on some aren't the same width and depth of the aftermarket. It's not as simple as just using oem clips on everything.

From personal experience, if you don't want to use the crappy circlips that come with a meteor piston for a 036/360 you will be in for a bit of a treasure hunt. Meteor clips got bent on the install rather easily (I am well aware that many do not even bother with them) . Stock 036/360 circlips are made of too thin of a gauge wire to adequately fit in the groove on the AM piston (despite the opening being machined to fit the 10mm pin). Solution, I had to order Stihl OEM 11mm circlips for a 361. 10 tanks of gas later and nothing has let loose yet.

 

[kmcinms]

Mike's comment wasn't directed at this particular piston, he was just shooting from the hip.

Here's the reality- none of this is rocket science. Do some research, figure out what's going to work and what isn't going to work, and make it happen. If you don't know anything about the hardness of spring steel- take the time to read about. If you're not sure about end gap- look it up.

A discussion about aftermarket parts is fine and dandy. But the OP of this thread started it with the intention of flogging a transaction which isn't his business and isn't ours either. It's the sole property and business of the two people involved.

JJ. I have plenty knowledge of spring steel and end gap. That's not my reason to post that. The identity of that particular piston is important to this discussion and will be duly noted if there is a history of failures from low quality spring steel circlips that can't be replaced with OEM quality parts.
If it wasn't clear, the part of my post that you didn't quote is actually defending the builder getting flogged in the transaction. I'm not flogging anyone here and hopefully wasn't adding to it. wasn't my intentions.

 

[Jacob J.]

JJ. I have plenty knowledge of spring steel and end gap. That's not my reason to post that. The identity of that particular piston is important to this discussion and will be duly noted if there is a history of failures from low quality spring steel circlips that can't be replaced with OEM quality parts.
If it wasn't clear, the part of my post that you didn't quote is actually defending the builder getting flogged in the transaction. I'm not flogging anyone here and hopefully wasn't adding to it. wasn't my intentions.

I wasn't referring to you specifically. This whole wrist pin clip deal has been an issue since the market started getting flooded with "low-cost aftermarket" parts back in 2005-2006. So my policy has always been to toss the included wrist pins and clips and figure out something from an OEM application that's going to work. As Woodgrenade posted above- the equivalent OEM application isn't going to always be the answer, so you have to come up with something else that works. Therein lies the hidden cost of "low-cost" parts.