Almost got crushed by my flipline

[ropensaddle]

I had that happen early in my career too. I got even luckier or I would still be in a wheel chair. I was using an old ancient line man strap that evidently was a bit rotten because it pulled me into the limb racked me good and the strap broke which kept the 18" diameter limb from crushing me! I figured out a way that will never happen again on my own! I use a plain buck strap in those possible split outs and clip both snaps int the middle d's or one side d. That way if she splits the pull stops at the d! If you use both side d's your going to be crushed sometime jmo.

 

[flushcut]

I tend to cut some of the weight off the limb first if it's really heavy.

 

[lego1970]

Today was my first climb since the accident and I tried out some of the new techniques I learned. I was very paranoid about peeling another branch but I kept my lanyard out of harms way when I could. The tree was a black walnut I think, I'm not great at twig ID. I even snapped some more pics (gotta have something to do up there while my guys screw around on the ground). Here is my first trial of the choker lanyard technique, pretty slick I must say.

I'm sure you know but if not keep in mind that doing that choke thing is not fool proof and not how the engineers designed that snap to be loaded. While I'm sure it would hold up fine, it's kinda a last resort technique. Also, sometimes you can get in a position where you won't be able to reach it to unsnap it and you'll have to choose between taking the other end off your saddle and getting your lanyard later, or taking off your climbing line and have a ground man sling it back to you once you climb to a better area. I would like to see what Lync is talking about (I'm behind the times when it comes to gear). Sounds like a better option.

As far as being tied in three places. My geuss is that human error is probably one of the main causes of death. Equipment failure seems pretty rare. As mentioned, trust your rope and lanyard. IMO, having that many peices of gear could easily get you in more trouble from accidently hooking up the wrong carabiner on the wrong D-ring.

I could be wrong, but from the picture that bark doesn't look like Black Walnut. Looks too smooth.

Anyway, just wanted to throw that out to you. Good luck and take care.

 

[lego1970]

I had that happen early in my career too. I got even luckier or I would still be in a wheel chair. I was using an old ancient line man strap that evidently was a bit rotten because it pulled me into the limb racked me good and the strap broke which kept the 18" diameter limb from crushing me! I figured out a way that will never happen again on my own! I use a plain buck strap in those possible split outs and clip both snaps int the middle d's or one side d. That way if she splits the pull stops at the d! If you use both side d's your going to be crushed sometime jmo.

I still have a few of those but they are getting old and I wouldn't trust them anymore, otherwise I kinda like them better. I loved that I could double wrap a limb with an "X" criss cross on the back side and it wouldn't slide if a little tension was on it. I can't get my rope lanyards to grip like that. Last summer while climbing a Silver Maple after a rain, my gaff kicked out and I slid a good 5' before my rope lanyard caught a limb. Left a few marks.

I read on Wesspur that they shouldn't be used for tree work? Why is that?

 

[ropensaddle]

I still have a few of those but they are getting old and I wouldn't trust them anymore, otherwise I kinda like them better. I loved that I could double wrap a limb with an "X" criss cross on the back side and it wouldn't slide if a little tension was on it. I can't get my rope lanyards to grip like that. Last summer while climbing a Silver Maple after a rain, my gaff kicked out and I slid a good 5' before my rope lanyard caught a limb. Left a few marks.

I read on Wesspur that they shouldn't be used for tree work? Why is that?

I think it's bull spit. I am talkin the fiber type, I think you are too. I can see not using the lineman strap but the buck strap was awesome imo. you could throw it over shoulder and clip it into d and it would stay out of the way till you needed it.

 

[ropensaddle]

I think it's bull spit. I am talkin the fiber type, I think you are too. I can see not using the lineman strap but the buck strap was awesome imo. you could throw it over shoulder and clip it into d and it would stay out of the way till you needed it.

Unlike the dam flip line bs:rant: I like neat clean in my gear

 

[flushcut]

All the gear in the world is not going to make you a good sawyer. I think you need more practice or somebody to show you how. If you had made the proper cuts in the first place you wouldn't be here telling us how you almost got squished. How you cut a limb or trunk or a chunk of wood is very important. In a nutshell your cut must be right all of the time. Think of it this way every cut you make wether it is aloft or on the ground is practice and make them perfect.

 

[lego1970]

I think it's bull spit. I am talkin the fiber type, I think you are too. I can see not using the lineman strap but the buck strap was awesome imo. you could throw it over shoulder and clip it into d and it would stay out of the way till you needed it.

I was talking about the yellow, (about 1.5") wide, straps with a snap at each end and an adjustable metal clip that kinda looked like this....

Sorry, sometimes I get confused between all the different terminology and pieces of gear that was used before my time, and the new stuff that I haven't been exposed to.

Thanks for your time and sorry if I'm still getting it confused.

 

[lync]

Working with smaller loads is safer, but big pieces go faster. On a large horizontal limb like the one you cut the weight and torque of the limb caused the limb to split before your top cut was finished too much weight from the limb supported only by the bottom half, from the pith down. In my opinion this is not a situation for a hinge . My solution would be to plunge cut from the center of the limb down and stop cutting an inch or 2 from the bottom. Top cut has to be an exact match or you risk the piece taking the saw to the ground. The bottom will tear slightly..for what its worth. Thats not a home depot rope on the back of your saddle is it?
Pm if you want to meet I'm not far from SI

 

[ropensaddle]

All the gear in the world is not going to make you a good sawyer. I think you need more practice or somebody to show you how. If you had made the proper cuts in the first place you wouldn't be here telling us how you almost got squished. How you cut a limb or trunk or a chunk of wood is very important. In a nutshell your cut must be right all of the time. Think of it this way every cut you make wether it is aloft or on the ground is practice and make them perfect.

Well now the limb I was cutting that almost ripped me in half except for my strap breaking the limb was cut proper.

Several things caused my ordeal #1 large horizontal limb #2 strap hooked at each side as in your picture. #3 proper cut under cut and kerfed. #3a undercut limb split quickly before reaching the undercut somewhat due to saws of the period but mostly due to extreme tension of the long branch. It is not just the cut, so case in point is; if you clip the middle d's together or clip to middle d with both ends of strap in high risk split out situations it will at least protect you from being crushed.

 

[ropensaddle]

Well now the limb I was cutting that almost ripped me in half except for my strap breaking the limb was cut proper.

Several things caused my ordeal #1 large horizontal limb #2 strap hooked at each side as in your picture. #3 proper cut under cut. #3a though undercut limb split quickly before reaching the undercut somewhat due to saws of the period but mostly due to extreme tension of the long branch. It is not just the cut so case in point is if you clip the middle d's together or clip to middle d with both ends of strap in high risk split out situations it will at least protect you from being crushed.

Because if strap terminates at middle d or d's and they are clipped together the pull will stop there and your body is not used as the strap. Another thing that can make for a bad day is to get your hand pinned by the rigging rope and I also experienced this before and all I can say is it sucks.

 

[flushcut]

I hear ya rope I get your technique and kind of like it. I am glad you ended up being ok.

 

[mpatch]

Well now the limb I was cutting that almost ripped me in half except for my strap breaking the limb was cut proper.

Not to be a wise a$$ but it wasn't cut correctly if it almost killed/hurt you. You can know "how" to make every cut in the world but knowing where to make a cut is the real challenge.

 

[ropensaddle]

Not to be a wise a$$ but it wasn't cut correctly if it almost killed/hurt you. You can know "how" to make every cut in the world but knowing where to make a cut is the real challenge.

Not to be a wiser ass you were not there in 1985 when this cut was made. I have cut literally millions of limbs just like it since and most did just right but unfortunately wood can be unpredictable. Many times ice storms partially split a limb and it heals concealing the wound which likely is what happened to the Quercus rubra I was in. Why you could have a point I could of limb walked twenty five feet and pieced the limb back in little pieces you would not find many do that now. Why because it normally is unnecessary. I only had a few years under my belt then but it was years of twenty trees per day and I was in the best shape then. Mpatch please don't attempt the perfect routeen with me, because I know the truth and remember when I thought I knew it all. Modulus of rupture can be accounted for but hidden defects without resistograph sometimes cant. I know how to protect this event from causing me harm and practice it in high risk cuts.

 

[chad556]

Working with smaller loads is safer, but big pieces go faster. On a large horizontal limb like the one you cut the weight and torque of the limb caused the limb to split before your top cut was finished too much weight from the limb supported only by the bottom half, from the pith down. In my opinion this is not a situation for a hinge . My solution would be to plunge cut from the center of the limb down and stop cutting an inch or 2 from the bottom. Top cut has to be an exact match or you risk the piece taking the saw to the ground. The bottom will tear slightly..for what its worth. Thats not a home depot rope on the back of your saddle is it?
Pm if you want to meet I'm not far from SI

I like that technique too, never have much of a chance to use it though because most of the time I take small branches, but at least in this case it probably would have worked better than what i did.

My theory for under cuts has always been that i would match the degree of the wedge with how quickly I want the piece to snap off. My idea of a perfect cut was a 30-45 degree wedge that would detach from the branch half way down its swing, rotate to just past vertical in mid air and then land on its tip, causing minimal damage to the turf before it flipped over butt end facing out ready for my groundies to grab it and drag it away. Thats how I've been doing it for a while now and it works great every time (except this time where I will be the first to agree, I should have used a different technique).

I also tried out a snap/jump cut the other day from a safe location of course, I wasnt tied to it in any way and I had a safe getaway. The branch was about 30' long 5" diameter and was pointing about 60-70 degrees off the horizontal. I cut fast but less than 2 inches into the back cut my undercut closed but didnt break and the limb tore about 6 feet down. I was afraid the thing would barber chair. Of course I was long gone on the other side of the trunk and above by that time. This was in that same black walnut(?) It seems like it is mainly the weight that causes the ripping correct i.e. a light branch will not rip no matter how you cut whereas a huge one will tear unless your cut is dead on perfect?

Oh and yes that is a $7.99 home depot rope on my harness. Don't worry I don't do any heavy rigging or life support activities with it. I use it mainly to raise and lower gear. I have also used it to pull branches the way I need them to go from the ground. Or once i used it to have my groundies pull down a limb that got hung up in another tree. I almost always take it up with me its, light and I don't even notice it most of the time. Also the two lanyards I got into using mainly when climbing multi stemmed trees. I always like to be above the piece I'm cutting when possible so when I am out on another stem away from my TIP I use the alternating lanyard technique to get above the branch i want to cut. I would just use a 2 in 1 but since I already have 2 lanyards i just use what I have. Once I get to the top and start coming down it just seems dumb to take one of my lanyards off and just let it swing where it can get gaffed or tangled up so i just keep them both on the tree. I know I'm a noob but there has to be someone else doing it at least kind of like this right?

 

[lync]

From the photos I see you climb on a splittail w/a vt hitch. Those micro grabs won't release under tension a vt will. Can get you out of a a tight spot. Instead of the second lanyard use the other end of your climbing rope to make a second climbing system, alternate between that and 1 lanyard once you climb out on a limb or another leader establish a second tie in. with 2 climbing rope tie ins you can put the lanyard away (you left the other 2nd one on the ground) no need to clip and unclip just balance between both climbing line ends as you work down. Lighter is better less fatigue less mistakes more energy. Leg protection is a good idea, but the chaps I find are sloppy in the tree the straps catch branches. Get the boss to blow a 100 bucks on a pair of protective pants. Always go for the highest safe tie in point 4 inch minimum. the rest of the climb will be easier if you do . Good luck

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

splitting

In such problem limbs splitting. And more weight on the end they are quicker to split.
Use one or two short ropes. I use timber knot-simple to ty. Timber knot then your lanyard . Will stop limb from splitting into your personal space. On huge limbs ty one on each side of your cut area. No splits either way. Work slick and whole lot safer than just firing up chainsaw.

 

[ropensaddle]

In such problem limbs splitting. And more weight on the end they are quicker to split.
Use one or two short ropes. I use timber knot-simple to ty. Timber knot then your lanyard . Will stop limb from splitting into your personal space. On huge limbs ty one on each side of your cut area. No splits either way. Work slick and whole lot safer than just firing up chainsaw.

yeah done that too just faster for me to use middle d's but cinchin a timber or ratchet strap may be better in some ways.

 

[tree md]

OK, so what would be the sense in throwing a flip line around this limb if I were to make a cut right here (regardless of the size)???

It's not rocket science guys...

 

[squad143]

OK, so what would be the sense in throwing a flip line around this limb if I were to make a cut right here (regardless of the size)???

It's not rocket science guys...

:agree2:

A higher TIP in the tree that the original poster was cutting would have eliminated the need for a flipline/laynard around the limb he was cutting.