Am I competing against myself?

[NCTREE]

I've been asked to climb for a reputable landscape co. in my area. I went to college with the one son, they are a good co. They been giving all their treework to my old boss meaning the whole job. They have asked me to climb for them using their equipment and labor. I am kind of weary about this, I feel as though I'm am competing against myself in the long run. I'm doing the work and they are getting the recognition for the job.

How many of you climb for other co.?

Will I be kicking myself in the ass down the road?

 

[Rftreeman]

Here's how I handle that, if I haven't bid on it then I wasn't going to make money on it anyway so why not make money on it while working for another...

I will not help on a job that I have bid on....

 

[tree md]

I've been asked to climb for a reputable landscape co. in my area. I went to college with the one son, they are a good co. They been giving all their treework to my old boss meaning the whole job. They have asked me to climb for them using their equipment and labor. I am kind of weary about this, I feel as though I'm am competing against myself in the long run. I'm doing the work and they are getting the recognition for the job.

How many of you climb for other co.?

Will I be kicking myself in the ass down the road?

I will climb for others but haven't recently. However, I have had two companies recently ask me to climb for them. One is an older gentleman who does mostly bucket work. He knows how to climb but is in his 60's now and asked if I would be interested in doing the trees he can't reach with his bucket. He told me all he would want is a finders fee and he would just give me the jobs. I didn't really think that fair and told him to call me on those jobs and we would look the job over together and I would tell him what I would climb it for. He could charge his own price and make what he can on it.

I also have another guy who I sub out a lot of stumps to. He does light climbing but won't mess with the big stuff. He put out several ads in about 6 different yellow pages in our metro area. He asked me if I would climb the big stuff for him. I told him sure. He just wanted a finders fee too. I told him basically the same thing as I told the older guy.

Here's the thing. What comes around surely goes around. I don't think either of these guys understand how things usually work. I think just giving me the jobs and collecting a finders fee would work for a very short time before these guys started feeling like they are getting the short end of the stick. I would like to have long term relationships with both of these guys. You never know when the use of guy number one's bucket and help might come in handy and guy number two often does me big favors on stumps and owns a truck crane as well. I think it would be better to climb the big jobs for these guys at a discounted price and maintain a good working relationship with them. A one hand washes the other type relationship.

Believe me, I have done guys jobs before where all they wanted was a finders fee and when they find out what kind of money they are missing out on and they get wise to how the business works it always ends in hard feelings. I'm trying to head that situation off at the pass so to speak.

Guy number two has 27 trees for me to look at next week. We'll see how it works out.

If I were you I would maintain control of the job. Make sure you are in charge. Tell them you will work with your crew on a contract basis. Tell them you will look each job over and tell them what you can do it for. I have found that this works better than a daily wage (which I used to work for as a contractor when I was younger). I mean, if you tell them you will work for $300 a day or something like that then they throw you into a super dead tree where the risk is great you are going to feel like it is not worth it for $300. Tell them that if they want you to climb you would rather do it on a contract basis, using your own guys that you have trained.

That's how I would do it anyway.

 

[tree MDS]

Just think about it a little more dude... it'll come to ya!

Best of luck.

 

[treemandan]

Yes you are.

 

[NCTREE]

I will climb for others but haven't recently. However, I have had two companies recently ask me to climb for them. One is an older gentleman who does mostly bucket work. He knows how to climb but is in his 60's now and asked if I would be interested in doing the trees he can't reach with his bucket. He told me all he would want is a finders fee and he would just give me the jobs. I didn't really think that fair and told him to call me on those jobs and we would look the job over together and I would tell him what I would climb it for. He could charge his own price and make what he can on it.

I also have another guy who I sub out a lot of stumps to. He does light climbing but won't mess with the big stuff. He put out several ads in about 6 different yellow pages in our metro area. He asked me if I would climb the big stuff for him. I told him sure. He just wanted a finders fee too. I told him basically the same thing as I told the older guy.

Here's the thing. What comes around surely goes around. I don't think either of these guys understand how things usually work. I think just giving me the jobs and collecting a finders fee would work for a very short time before these guys started feeling like they are getting the short end of the stick. I would like to have long term relationships with both of these guys. You never know when the use of guy number one's bucket and help might come in handy and guy number two often does me big favors on stumps and owns a truck crane as well. I think it would be better to climb the big jobs for these guys at a discounted price and maintain a good working relationship with them. A one hand washes the other type relationship.

Believe me, I have done guys jobs before where all they wanted was a finders fee and when they find out what kind of money they are missing out on and they get wise to how the business works it always ends in hard feelings. I'm trying to head that situation off at the pass so to speak.

Guy number two has 27 trees for me to look at next week. We'll see how it works out.

If I were you I would maintain control of the job. Make sure you are in charge. Tell them you will work with your crew on a contract basis. Tell them you will look each job over and tell them what you can do it for. I have found that this works better than a daily wage (which I used to work for as a contractor when I was younger). I mean, if you tell them you will work for $300 a day or something like that then they throw you into a super dead tree where the risk is great you are going to feel like it is not worth it for $300. Tell them that if they want you to climb you would rather do it on a contract basis, using your own guys that you have trained.

That's how I would do it anyway.

I hear what your saying my thoughts are by climbing for them I could be helping their co. branch into another direction eventually competing against me.

I like the idea of a finders fee, they give me the job I do it with my team and equipment.

 

[NCTREE]

Yes you are.

Don't you climb for landscrapers?

 

[tree md]

I should say that both of these are tree services. I have a small group of friends and associates around here and we do "favors" for each other. That's why I don't want to cut them out of their own sales. In previous years I have been to busy to even think about contract climbing. The past year has been slow. I'd rather team up and make some money than set home and make none. Plus I am holding off on advertising right now. I need to see what is going to happen with some medical stuff I have going on right now before I advertise too hot and heavy. It's nice to have the option of contract climbing there if I need it.

With landscapers I will refer them if they refer me. I don't mind paying a finders fee if they ask for one but the landscaper that I deal with now just passes leads along to me and vice versa.

 

[treemandan]

Don't you climb for landscrapers?

Not anywhere around here usually.

 

[PurdueJoe]

The landscapers I deal with we just pass leads back and forth. We have a little cross over but it still works out well for both of us. What you have to watch out for is the landscaper that has you on the job to learn from you. I had one ask me if I would teach him how to climb I simply said "No and when he asked why? I simply said I'll teach you how to climb if you teach me how to build retaining walls." Needless to say we still still pass work to each other but there is an "understanding" we have.

 

[treemandan]

Its just a very touchy thing NC. Usually when i work for the scrapers they get more than they bargined for as I like to teach them a lesson.
I do have little faith in bidding jobs, always have. So I do have my own clientel which is pretty loyal but a lot of my income come from finding yocals to school in the fine art of arboriculture til they can't take it anymore... or I can't take it anymore which is what happened to the guy down the street.
I did some work for him years ago. One day and told him I wasn't down with his hack ass crap. But he was always calling and the two idiots that worked for him also pretty much begged me to help. So I did. I don't mean to sound like I am so cool and everybody else sucks. I give anybody a shot, I did with you right?
I dunno, maybe I have a bad attitude, maybe you do too, maybe that is why you started your own business.
So the answer to your question , Yes you are. Me? Hell, I am not even in the same business as you.
Of all the subs I ever hired they hated working for me because they would think about how they should be working on there own business rather than busting their hump for a sub's wages. I like working as sub. I am able to help guys who need it and don't have the responsiblity own running a full fledged comapany. Ain't nobody ever gonna give me #### and if they do there is another gig down the road. I am even getting sick of trying to keep up with my own clients ludicrous demands.
Its ALL crazy out there NC, I am close to retiring though not alltogether because its so dam fun! I actually hope to work with you again.

 

[treemandan]

I will climb for others but haven't recently. However, I have had two companies recently ask me to climb for them. One is an older gentleman who does mostly bucket work. He knows how to climb but is in his 60's now and asked if I would be interested in doing the trees he can't reach with his bucket. He told me all he would want is a finders fee and he would just give me the jobs. I didn't really think that fair and told him to call me on those jobs and we would look the job over together and I would tell him what I would climb it for. He could charge his own price and make what he can on it.

I also have another guy who I sub out a lot of stumps to. He does light climbing but won't mess with the big stuff. He put out several ads in about 6 different yellow pages in our metro area. He asked me if I would climb the big stuff for him. I told him sure. He just wanted a finders fee too. I told him basically the same thing as I told the older guy.

Here's the thing. What comes around surely goes around. I don't think either of these guys understand how things usually work. I think just giving me the jobs and collecting a finders fee would work for a very short time before these guys started feeling like they are getting the short end of the stick. I would like to have long term relationships with both of these guys. You never know when the use of guy number one's bucket and help might come in handy and guy number two often does me big favors on stumps and owns a truck crane as well. I think it would be better to climb the big jobs for these guys at a discounted price and maintain a good working relationship with them. A one hand washes the other type relationship.

Believe me, I have done guys jobs before where all they wanted was a finders fee and when they find out what kind of money they are missing out on and they get wise to how the business works it always ends in hard feelings. I'm trying to head that situation off at the pass so to speak.

Guy number two has 27 trees for me to look at next week. We'll see how it works out.

If I were you I would maintain control of the job. Make sure you are in charge. Tell them you will work with your crew on a contract basis. Tell them you will look each job over and tell them what you can do it for. I have found that this works better than a daily wage (which I used to work for as a contractor when I was younger). I mean, if you tell them you will work for $300 a day or something like that then they throw you into a super dead tree where the risk is great you are going to feel like it is not worth it for $300. Tell them that if they want you to climb you would rather do it on a contract basis, using your own guys that you have trained.

That's how I would do it anyway.

Dam skippy! 300 a day for what!!!???

 

[tree md]

LOL, $300 a day was what I last worked for back in the 90's. And that was with my groundman. To tell the truth, it has been so long since I have worked for a daily wage I wouldn't know what to charge??? That's why I like to do it by the job. I mean, I know what I paid my subs when I was subbing out storm work but that is not normal circumstances. I was paying one guy up to $600 a day with his groundman but he was well worth it. I would even turn him loose on his own jobs when he had done well by me. I'd just give him the lead and turn him loose. He was a good climber though and I didn't have to babysit him. Plus he carried his own insurance.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I'm doing the work and they are getting the recognition for the job.

This is where I'm at right now, NC. My company is one of very few that can pull off monster climbers in my area. Buncha bucket bunnies in my neck of the woods. Every job I go to with someone else's name on my shirt is another job that my company should have got. Not only did my co not get the job but now another co gets the reputation my co deserves. Serious conflict of interest. My best advice is if you don't absolutely need to, don't start. It's harder to turn down quick cash once you've become accustomed to it. Also remember any amount of time spent working for someone else is time you could have invested in your own gig.

 

[capetrees]

If I read this right, a landscape company that gives tree work to a competitor has asked you to climb for them. Does this mean they now will be giving all the tree work to you or are you working as one of their employees when you do tree work? if they were giving the tree work to the other company, why are they not now giving it all to you as your own company? If you climb for them, you will be making them smarter and in the long run, as they watch you and learn from you, you will be hurting yourself in the long run and eventually, onec they feel confident to do it alone, yes, you will be competing against yourself. If you don't do the tree work for them, who will they hire, the old company? If you need the job for the money, do it. But if you have work, myself, I wouldn't do it, not on a regular basis anyway.

 

[NCTREE]

Its just a very touchy thing NC. Usually when i work for the scrapers they get more than they bargined for as I like to teach them a lesson.
I do have little faith in bidding jobs, always have. So I do have my own clientel which is pretty loyal but a lot of my income come from finding yocals to school in the fine art of arboriculture til they can't take it anymore... or I can't take it anymore which is what happened to the guy down the street.
I did some work for him years ago. One day and told him I wasn't down with his hack ass crap. But he was always calling and the two idiots that worked for him also pretty much begged me to help. So I did. I don't mean to sound like I am so cool and everybody else sucks. I give anybody a shot, I did with you right?
I dunno, maybe I have a bad attitude, maybe you do too, maybe that is why you started your own business.
So the answer to your question , Yes you are. Me? Hell, I am not even in the same business as you.
Of all the subs I ever hired they hated working for me because they would think about how they should be working on there own business rather than busting their hump for a sub's wages. I like working as sub. I am able to help guys who need it and don't have the responsiblity own running a full fledged comapany. Ain't nobody ever gonna give me #### and if they do there is another gig down the road. I am even getting sick of trying to keep up with my own clients ludicrous demands.
Its ALL crazy out there NC, I am close to retiring though not alltogether because its so dam fun! I actually hope to work with you again.

At least you work for yourself and make your own dam rules. Thats the best part of this whole thing. Yeah I wouldn't mind working together again as long as we can keep the #### talking to a minimum.

 

[NCTREE]

If I read this right, a landscape company that gives tree work to a competitor has asked you to climb for them. Does this mean they now will be giving all the tree work to you or are you working as one of their employees when you do tree work? if they were giving the tree work to the other company, why are they not now giving it all to you as your own company? If you climb for them, you will be making them smarter and in the long run, as they watch you and learn from you, you will be hurting yourself in the long run and eventually, onec they feel confident to do it alone, yes, you will be competing against yourself. If you don't do the tree work for them, who will they hire, the old company? If you need the job for the money, do it. But if you have work, myself, I wouldn't do it, not on a regular basis anyway.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Why not give me the same deal that they gave my old boss? It seems they are trying to whore me out to do their dirty work while reaping all the benys. I think i'm going to demand that I get the same deal as Arborcare or NO DEAL!!! I really don't need the money right now, doing fine by myself.

 

[treemandan]

At least you work for yourself and make your own dam rules. Thats the best part of this whole thing. Yeah I wouldn't mind working together again as long as we can keep the #### talking to a minimum.

QUOTE=NCTREE;2152900]At least you work for yourself and make your own dam rules.

That is hitting it right on the head. But in all essence I follow the rules of tree work and to T and also put the work in for the good guys who need a gentleman like me. Guys who appreciate it because I appreciate it.
I worked with some good guys today ( first day with a new company), met back up with a kid I worked with years ago. Real deal tree work, heavy hitters. No crying, no BS, no idle chatter at the wrong time just all hands on deck.
There is a time for bull####ting and there is a time for not. One must know what time it is.
Now this other guy I have been working with...

 

[NCTREE]

So why the hell are you retiring if you have so much fun? What are you going to do with yourself if your not doing treework?

 

[treemandan]

So why the hell are you retiring if you have so much fun? What are you going to do with yourself if your not doing treework?

Good question. I am looking to go into solar. I plan to finish a degree and go in as a manager or project manager and pick up tree gigs here and there.