Arbonaut
Go Climb It
Tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass. That's how we roll.
am i in the wrong here?
- Thread starter v-ridge
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass. That's how we roll.
Not one of your comparisons apply to this situation… not a single one, and there ain't no double-standard either, it's a simple case of responsibility. You’re talking about liabilities and law-breaking; and although I agree the manufacturer/packager has some responsibility for the packaging error… it is the purchaser (end user) who is at major fault in this instance. Certain packaged products are intended to be opened only by the purchaser (end user). With those type products It is the responsibility of the purchaser (end user) to insure he has received the correct product within the return policy time-frame allowed by the retailer (not the manufacturer). Not only did the OP shirk the responsibility of checking the product within a reasonable time frame, he further shirked his responsibility by using the product without first insuring it was correct (cut loops from the roll).
As I said, the manufacturer/packager (not the retailer) has (or had) some responsibility for the packaging error; but after two years the manufacturer/packager has no ethical, moral or legal responsibility because the purchaser (end user) did not fulfill his… and that’s the simple facts in this situation. This is not a case of product liability or quality… and, after two years, the manufacturer/packager, wholesaler and retailer all are within reason to suspect the OP is trying to “pull-a-fast-one” (we know he is not, but that don’t matter).
And I’ll finish with this…
Saw chain is packaged to protect it from damage and corrosion until the end user opens it.
So… if you ordered a roll of chain, and received an open box that had been relabeled by the seller, would you be satisfied?? It is not the responsibility of the retailer/seller, in this instance, to check package contents for accuracy; it is the sole responsibility of the purchaser (end user) to do so… and to do it within the return policy time frame (and certainly before he uses it). It-is-what-it-is, although there was an error at the packaging level, the OP is the one at fault here, he did not fulfill his responsibility and for that he pays the price… lesson learned (hopefully).
v-ridge
ArboristSite Member
i sell you something wrong, its you,the buyers fault. i'm in the wrong line of work!
avalancher
Arboristsite Raconteur
I am going to have to agree with whitespider on this one, two years is a bit much to expect anyone to warranty a mislabeled product. Sure, it stinks to have to end doing something yourself with the roll, but in reality, where do you draw the line? After all, if you can return something after two years, why not three?How about four, five, ten, or twenty years?
I am probably bias here, my family and I own an online retail shop, and I see this question fairly often. A customer calls and says, "I received my order back in November, but didnt open the box at the time. I just opened it yesterday and discovered half the contents are smashed beyond repair. Can I have a refund, exchange, etc?"
After a polite "no" doesnt work, I ask them the same question. "would you try this at walmart? Would you buy a shirt, coffee maker, donut hole cutter or anything else and take it back to walmart and expect them to give you a new one after five months?"
Generally they get my point and hang up, but occasionally we get the folks who want to argue, and all I can really do is listen politely and simply say, "Im sorry, you kind of tied my hands by waiting five months to notice a problem."
To the OP, I dont mean to hack on ya, I know you are frustrated enough as it is. But to be honest with you, I would not as a retailer do anything for you if you waited two years to note the problem after not only opening the box but using part of the product. If you had not wacked off a chunk of chain, I reckon we could work something out.
I am probably bias here, my family and I own an online retail shop, and I see this question fairly often. A customer calls and says, "I received my order back in November, but didnt open the box at the time. I just opened it yesterday and discovered half the contents are smashed beyond repair. Can I have a refund, exchange, etc?"
After a polite "no" doesnt work, I ask them the same question. "would you try this at walmart? Would you buy a shirt, coffee maker, donut hole cutter or anything else and take it back to walmart and expect them to give you a new one after five months?"
Generally they get my point and hang up, but occasionally we get the folks who want to argue, and all I can really do is listen politely and simply say, "Im sorry, you kind of tied my hands by waiting five months to notice a problem."
To the OP, I dont mean to hack on ya, I know you are frustrated enough as it is. But to be honest with you, I would not as a retailer do anything for you if you waited two years to note the problem after not only opening the box but using part of the product. If you had not wacked off a chunk of chain, I reckon we could work something out.
It may well be that there is no resolution to be had here. But I really don't see how this can be twisted to become the purchasers fault or reflecting a lack of responsibility on his part. When I have an order arrive I check to make sure that I have received the items on the invoice. But I would never think to open each individual packaged goods to make sure that the contents match the label. When you guys order a book on line do you read it as soon as it arrives to make sure a page wasn't skipped in the printing process? Would I try an exchange like this at Walmart, no - but that is why I avoid the place and give most of my business to local merchants. If I bought 3 loops of chain at my local hardware and went back two years later to say I had just opened the last package and the chain was a different size from the others and from the label they would make it right in a heartbeat. That's why they get my business instead of Home Depot.
I DID NOT SAY the packaging error was "the buyers fault", I said the buyer was at major fault because he did not fulfill his responsibility. If, and only if, the buyer would have fulfilled his responsibility to check contents of the sealed product in a timely fashion (within the return policy time frame), then it would have been the responsibility of the seller/retailer to exchange or refund according to his return policy, and then it would have been the responsibility of the manufacturer/packager according to the agreement he has with the retailer.
This is an example of "Personal Responsibility", and the consequences of not fulfilling that responsibility... which can happen at any level along the chain of responsibility. For example; if the buyer would have returned the product immediately for exchange and the seller/retailer tossed it on a shelf for two years before contacting the manufacturer/packager... well than, the seller/retailer would be feeling the consequences of not fulfilling his responsibility. The seller/retailer sold you a product on "good faith" that the package label was correct (as he should have, he is not supposed to open the package) while at the same time allowing you ample time to return the product (return policy) if there was any errors. It was your personal responsibility to check that order for errors within the return policy time frame... you did not, and it really is that simple. You now expect the seller/retailer (who is at absolutely no fault) to take back a likely unsaleable product that is likely two years outside of any return agreement he has with the manufacturer/packager. Basically, you want the seller/retailer to accept the consequences of your mistake... you are unwilling to accept your personal responsibility in this matter.
If you feel you have something coming (and technically I agree you do), then it is now your personal responsibility to take it up with the manufacturer/packager (which may or may not work out for you)... the seller/retailer has fulfilled his responsibility! Accept the fact that you made an error, assume the responsibility for it and stop trying to pass it on to someone who has made no error of any sort (the seller retailer).
Anybody count the DL's on a pre packaged loop of chain after receipt and before you toss on a shelf for god only knows how long? Me either.
I do! I've worked several jobs that dealt with sealed package products... I open them immediately upon receipt. With "in person" purchases I've been known to open stuff right at sales counter (after paying) to check contents... and I've found errors more than once.
Yeah, there are advantages to to purchasing from local small business where you have a semi-personal (or better) relationship with the proprietor... but that ain't the case in this instance. Buying anything "mail-order" requires the purchaser to be ever vigilant... "Buyer Be Ware" applies always.
Nope, I don't count 'em; I open the package and compare the new loop to the old loop before I toss it on the shelf... always!
I got a mislabeled loop from a saw shop once... I take usually take an old loop with me so I can compare before I leave the shop!
Thats what im going to start doing, thanks!
Legally, I'm sure, the time constraints are very tight - ranging from a strict interpretation of caveat emptor to a 30 or 60 day return and/or exchange policy offered by a vendor. But from a customer service/public relations angle it is entirely up to the vendor to do whatever they want. Just imagine if the OP's post had read "Hey guys, I just discovered that a chain order from 2 years ago was screwed up. I contacted XYZ Co., explained it to the rep, and after checking with the boss they said ship it back and we'll send you the right one." Do you think they would have gotten much new business from people on this site?
mizzou
ArboristSite Operative
Most things you buy that are in a box whether it's from lowes, mail order or internet purchase, says somewhere to inspect contents upon delivery.
avalancher
Arboristsite Raconteur
Your right, if you bought three loops of chain and after two years went back and showed them the last one was a different size, they might be willing to swap you out. But how about if you USED it first so that it was no longer suitable to be put back on the shelf. Would you still take it back and actually expect some compensation?
I see both sides of the coin here, but in reality I think its like a traffic accident. Sure, you could have been going slower, the other guy could also been a little more aware of the snow on the ground. But when the dust clears, there really is no FAULT here, it just happened. And in the end the only one who ends up paying is the insurance company because that is what you pay them for. Like every other situation in life, there doesnt always have to be a guy who is at fault, sometimes carp just happens.
Those low lifes... would never short a roll, would they?
We sold drain pipe at the store, came to us on a 100 foot roll. Customer came to me and requested 80 feet of pipe. Okay, I propose cutting 20 feet off a full roll...
Nope, you are going to roll out the full 80 feet.
Okay, I will roll out the full 80 feet. Upon completion of that task, he asked me what was left. 15 feet. So a 100 foot roll from the manufacturer is 95 feet?? Yep. Happens all the time.
Hey, guy ho get yourself a nice shiny bar for your chainsaw and use up that 58 gauge stuff, or sell it to the guy on here that can use it. Problem solved.
We sold drain pipe at the store, came to us on a 100 foot roll. Customer came to me and requested 80 feet of pipe. Okay, I propose cutting 20 feet off a full roll...
Nope, you are going to roll out the full 80 feet.
Okay, I will roll out the full 80 feet. Upon completion of that task, he asked me what was left. 15 feet. So a 100 foot roll from the manufacturer is 95 feet?? Yep. Happens all the time.
Hey, guy ho get yourself a nice shiny bar for your chainsaw and use up that 58 gauge stuff, or sell it to the guy on here that can use it. Problem solved.
We wouldnt even know about it because it wouldve been a good experience.
Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2
Anymore I check everything. At the auto parts store I needed a gasket set for a motor I was working on. They look it up on the computer and bring it out and I say "Mind if I open the box up and have a look?" They of course don't mind and so I do. There were no valve cover gaskets inside. So they check the other kit in stock and it didn't have any either. Computer says the valve cover gaskets should be there so they call the distributor. Long story short there were thousands of those kits that left the manufacturer without all the gaskets they were supposed to have. I got a kit with all the right contents a couple days later and went on my way. That was three years ago, the project is still waiting for me to finish a little bit of machining. If I had waited to open the gasket kit till now I'd be SOL. Place I bought it has a 90 day return policy.
Mr. HE
Mr. HE
TreeTangler
ArboristSite Guru
My opinions on this matter have already been expressed by others so there's no need for me to voice them again and swat the beehive. Instead I'll be a part of the solution.
1- Instead of asking for replacement that you are almost certain not to get, call and ask them to see if they'll at least send you some of the right straps so you can find a way to use the role.
2- Many good folks on here use 0.058 chain, myself included. Either put a price for the whole roll or piece it out in several lengths, either way I'm sure that we could get it out of your way in no time and at a fair price.
1- Instead of asking for replacement that you are almost certain not to get, call and ask them to see if they'll at least send you some of the right straps so you can find a way to use the role.
2- Many good folks on here use 0.058 chain, myself included. Either put a price for the whole roll or piece it out in several lengths, either way I'm sure that we could get it out of your way in no time and at a fair price.
Dusty Rhodes
ArboristSite Operative
Having read the posts, I see both sides. Some of you are sellers and some are buyers, therein lies the differing perspectives. As my father used to say, The world is as "you" see it. I heading out to the garage to open each quart of the two cases of oil I got in the fall. I probably won't need to use it all in the next two years. If there happens to be water in them jugs instead of oil I am hosed.
