Ams Oil Goo

[klickitatsacket]

I just got a Ms 660 in for modifications and was greeted by red goo when I pulled it down. The saw was sent to me by a customer out of AZ. I pulled the saw down today getting ready to work it over and found red OIL ( it looks like it's coated in ATF) all over the cylinder, piston and at least a table spoon in the crank case. At first I was thinking that it a gasket leaking from the bar oil reservoir. The oil in there was yellow. I next looked in the gas tank and found thick oil in there as well. I called the customer and asked him what was going on. The saw has only had 6 or 7 tanks of fuel through it. He told me that he was running Ams oil ( I do not remember which one off the top of my head) the oil was suppose to be their new stuff and runs $12 a quart. He said the directions called for 50:1 but he ran it at 32:1. The piston was covered with carbon from the oil sitting on the piston and cooking. The rings had absolutely no ware but the skirt was showing ware at the bottom on both sides of the piston. I am telling this story so that other might understand what this oil is doing. I will try and get some pictures on here of it later today. ( we are having problems with the shop computer and have to reload the camera software)

 

[Lobo]

Are you saying he is running it too rich at 32:1

 

[klickitatsacket]

I am not making any declarations on mix ratio. I am only relaying the facts and will let you decide. I will say though that the seperation of the oil from the gas is very disturbing.

 

[bwalker]

It's normal for some oil to be present, but not all over the piston and such as you described. I can help but wonder if he mixed it at a much richer ratio, but on second thought I have engines that are run at 16:1 and they dont develope the issues you mentioned. I think Amsoil in gerneral is of dubious quality, but I think something else is going on here besides oil.

 

[bwalker]

Why dont you post some pics? That might help us get to the bottom of this.

 

[Lobo]

I have some of the new Amsoil PREMIX 100:1 here and it is blue. The previous Amsoil was dark blue. I have never had any problems with it and some engine have had a lot of Amsoil mix go through it.

I don't understand why you are getting a red goo (oil being blue) could he have a problem with his gas container, red paint, red polyethylene.

I wonder what a chemical analysis would break it down in to.

 

[premix]

The red color amsoil would be amsoil 2000 or the newer version Dominator.

found red OIL ( it looks like it's coated in ATF) all over the cylinder, piston and at least a table spoon in the crank case.

There should be oil in a 2 stroke crank case never taken one apart that did not have oil in a crank case. Crank case residual oil is what the crank bearings bathe in and the crank halfs throw it up onto piston pin, small end bearing, and cylinder wall

I next looked in the gas tank and found thick oil in there as well.

I would ask him about his mixing & measuring methods. I have used many gallons of this oil in bikes and have never seen that even at 32:1.

The piston was covered with carbon from the oil sitting on the piston and cooking

but the skirt was showing ware at the bottom on both sides of the piston.

At 6 or 7 tanks of gas I would be alarmed at this also. It might be an indication of overly rich jetting at some point in its short life. I just did a top end on a YZ 250 this Winter I bought new, the piston and exhaust part was very clean but there was some spooge in the power valve area.

 

[Lobo]

I don't think this is really the correct product for chainsaws and 32:1 IMHO may be too rich to start with.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/tdr.aspx

 

[klickitatsacket]

ok guys I am going to ry and post some pics. we are have a eal tuff time keeping the shop computer up and running so not too sure how this will work. Some of the pics. are not the greatest so I will post them one by one with a brief description. A comment was made ealier about oil being present is normal. I have tore down close to 1,000 saws and have never seen any thing like this. This is like ATF in looks and consistancy. It is litterally sepperated from the fuel. One other thing is that this saw is ran at 6,000 feet above sea level. I do not know if this will have an effect on things. I do know that the last saw this customer sent to me had no problems like this. First picture is of the crank case. There is at least a table spoon of "oil" not mix in there.

 

[bwalker]

Thats very unusual that the crank case would have that much residual oil in it. I have never seen anything like that even on engines ran at 16:1! I wonder if thats mixed fuel in the crabkcase instaed of oil?

 

[Lobo]

That is really strange, is he sure of what he put in the gas.

 

[Lawn Masters]

Makes me think he put ATF in the fuel for mix oil. it sure looks like it to me.

 

[klickitatsacket]

I swear it's like oil and not mix. I just went and looked at the fuel tank and the residue in there is the same color but thin. Another thing is that there is no residue (spooge) in the exhaust at all.

 

[Lobo]

Could he have mistakenly used tacky reddish bar oil instead of mix.

We all have our moments of absentmindedness.

 

[klickitatsacket]

Could he have mistakenly used tacky reddish bar oil instead of mix.

We all have our moments of absentmindedness.

this is why I checked the oil tank. I thought it might have had a leak. I called him and he said it was some new ams oil product.

 

[Madsaw]

Well from the pics the first thing comes to my mind is mystic gear lube I use in gear boxes on the farm. Is this stuff tacky? Mystic is just a brand name of oil the local farm and barn sells. Looks like some one poured oil in to it to store it, or fog the cylinder to store it. I had a JD 80 ev that way. Smoked like mad for about 10 mins then cleared up . Had to put a new plug in it to get it to fire. It was fog with something.
Later
Bob

 

[premix]

One other thing is that this saw is ran at 6,000 feet above sea level.

If he did not adjust the stock jetting (air/gas ratio) to compensate for this kind of elevation change this would explain a bunch. Was this guy complaining about a lack of horsepower?

This racing oil might not be a good oil at this elevation with the lower cylinder pressure a chainsaw uses because it uses a high temperature base oil. Considering how much cylinder pressure a 2 stroke loses at higher elevation. Figure a lose of 20 - 30 PSI per 2000 feet this would be down at least 60 PSI going from sea level to 6000 feet. Many 2 stroke racing oils need good compression to help them burn efficiently.

 

[MacDaddy]

If there's no oil in the exhaust it wasn't running like this. I think someone poured the oil in the cylinder. Those saws run fine at 6000ft. a slight adjustment might be needed on the highspeed.

 

[DanManofStihl]

amsoil

When I ran amsoil racing series 2000 I had oil coming out of my exhaust port I tore it down and it looked bad but not that bad. He needs to be running the premix amsoil or he needs to thin out his mix better. I started running 50 to 1 and it cleaed out a whole lot. Run much better and never had any more issues.

 

[Erik D. Schmid]

Dan is correct. I used Amsoil's Dominator/Series 2000 Racing 2-Cycle before switching to their Saber 100:1 pre-mix. It did oil up the muffler a bit whereas the pre-mix does not. Also, Dominator is labeled as an injector oil.