Newbie questions

[Rugger]

Hello everyone,

The 362c is running very well and has a few tanks through it so far. I have a Bark Box and WCS 3pt dogs waiting for me to pick up.
I have been running the saw at 40:1 with the Stihl oil (JASO FB) but I have just picked up Red Armour and will transition to that.
First question - I can only get fuel where I am which contains up to 10% ethanol. Should I be putting a quality fuel stabilizer into the gas prior to adding the oil or is the oil alone enough?
Second question - from what I am understanding, the lower the mix ratio, the higher the lubricity within the engine. That said, is there any reason or has anyone ever used a ceramic treatment or a ceramic treated oil such as https://cermatreatment.com/products/max-2-cycle-multi-ratio-oil
https://advancedenginetech.com/high-class_lubricants-and-additives/micro-ceramic-oil/(Mods, I apologize if I can’t post links like this).
With the cost of goods and services these days anything that can extend the life and lower repair costs of saws is a good thing.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

No place in Canada that sells non ethanol gas? Maybe an airport or a race track?

 

[Rugger]

No place in Canada that sells non ethanol gas? Maybe an airport or a race track?

Not where I am in northern Ontario. The airport does have AVGAS, however, they will only fill aircraft. No Jerry cans period. I looked at premix but it’s $50 can.

 

[stihltech]

The ethanol is not the issue. How fast you use it up is. 90 days is the limit. I even have issues with non ethanol from the local vendors because it sits in the tank too long. It will make water too.
Occasionally dump the saw tank out when near empty. Dump the fuel can out before refill. Pour some out into a glass jar to check water level.
Scoff at me all you want. 75% of what I repair has water in the fuel. Eats carburetors, scores cylinders.
Fix the easy stuff first.

 

[irhunter]

The ethanol is not the issue. How fast you use it up is. 90 days is the limit. I even have issues with non ethanol from the local vendors because it sits in the tank too long. It will make water too.
Occasionally dump the saw tank out when near empty. Dump the fuel can out before refill. Pour some out into a glass jar to check water level.
Scoff at me all you want. 75% of what I repair has water in the fuel. Eats carburetors, scores cylinders.
Fix the easy stuff first.

+1

Except, I think ethanol is part of the issue.

I agree...if using pump gas, fresh is the answer.

But, the E-10 limit for me is a month. And, E-0 pump gas is more like 6 months. Those are both in-the-saw and in-the-jug limits. When the time is up, if no more cutting is planned, I purge the saw.

I do not think Stabil is a good idea in 2-stroke motors.

I also think, E-10 saws and jugs should be stored at room-temp whenever possible. Not out in the unheated shed in the winter.

Here we have easy-to-find E-0 pump gas. I think the snowmobiles/ATVs keep the demand high.

I also think E-10 is a special problem when cutting in very high temps. Over-pressurized saws and jugs.

Roy

 

[farmguywithasaw]

You can use that synthetic fuel but it’s pricey. I tried some of the non pre mixed stuff and added my own oil. Just as an experiment. My old pioneer gobbled it back in no time so I just stick with marked premium

 

[Old2stroke]

I don't think there is any additive that you can add to gas that will negate the damaging affects of the alcohol, you have to remove the alcohol and it's easy to do and worthwhile as long as you aren't using HUGE volumes of fuel. Basically, you add water to the gas, the water is absorbed by the alcohol and it settles out to the bottom of the container which you remove and are left with just gas. Do a search, lots of discussion on how to do it. I got lucky this fall, my local Shell dealer was still selling alcohol free gas in the premium pump. Probably the last when inventory runs out.

 

[James Sawyer]

I sure access to Non-Ethanol Fuel in certain areas is problematic, AV gas has its own issues as well. In my younger... crazier youth, I ran 1/4 drag boats, flats and Hydro's. The last hydro I ran got 2 1/2 miles to 20 gallons of fuel. I had to learn little about fuels. Here's the thing about Ethanol fuel that some people don't understand. It takes 2 gallons of Ethanol for the same energy as a quality gas fuel. So let say you are running E20 (20% alcohol fuel) you are running 10% less fuel per gallon. So E20 fuel running leaner in effect. Alcohol does have some benefits; it has more octane than gas and it does run cooler. As mentioned, with Ethanol mixed fuel you have the water issue and it go stale in 30-60 day and it doesn't store well: plus, it hard on some rubber parts. Ethanol and 2-cycle engines in my opinion just do not go well together. Non-Ethanal fuel can be stabilized and keep up to 2 years, but as also mentioned I wouldn't run it in my 2-cycle engines. Fresh fuel is always the best. So, in those problem availability areas there is a distributor that delivers fuel in your area, possibly several. Call them ask them if they deliver to a station in your area, maybe you'll luck out... lot easier than driving around looking. I understand your issue, there are three stations in my area I use to get fuel until I noticed water in my fuel. I only buy from one of those station now.

 

[StihlsawuserMS361]

This may be off topic a bit, perhaps someone can answer?

When E 10 came to my area in NY, (Can't remember the year or find it while searching on line) I did a test. Filled a jelly jar with a small hole in the lid to ventilate. This fuel stayed outdoors, but under cover. I never saw any water develop in over 10 + years. Smells terrible, I'm sure it would still burn if ignited.

With all this talk about E 10, shouldn't I have seen some water in the bottom?

I did back then put E 10 in my old boat as E Free wasn't readily available. Backfire, sure sounded like water in fuel. Found E Free, never a problem since. Always use fresh E free in everything other that my truck. Neighbors, use E 10, never winterize their equipment, and never have a problem.

Go figure.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

The ethanol is not the issue. How fast you use it up is. 90 days is the limit. I even have issues with non ethanol from the local vendors because it sits in the tank too long. It will make water too.
Occasionally dump the saw tank out when near empty. Dump the fuel can out before refill. Pour some out into a glass jar to check water level.
Scoff at me all you want. 75% of what I repair has water in the fuel. Eats carburetors, scores cylinders.
Fix the easy stuff first.

I would only scoff when you said ethanol is not the issue. Most people around here leave fuel in their saws way too long so I only recommend non ethanol fuel if they can find it. I make the 25 mile round trip to a neighboring town to pick up 93 octane non ethanol gas occasionally.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

This may be off topic a bit, perhaps someone can answer?

When E 10 came to my area in NY, (Can't remember the year or find it while searching on line) I did a test. Filled a jelly jar with a small hole in the lid to ventilate. This fuel stayed outdoors, but under cover. I never saw any water develop in over 10 + years. Smells terrible, I'm sure it would still burn if ignited.

With all this talk about E 10, shouldn't I have seen some water in the bottom?

I did back then put E 10 in my old boat as E Free wasn't readily available. Backfire, sure sounded like water in fuel. Found E Free, never a problem since. Always use fresh E free in everything other that my truck. Neighbors, use E 10, never winterize their equipment, and never have a problem.

Go figure.

Ethanol was an idea to placate the farmers who, I guess, had trouble selling their corn. Corn was meant to be a food, not a fuel. I'd prefer to never put ethanol in anything that I have although I admit that I put it in my 4 cylinder car..

 

[StihlsawuserMS361]

I agree, MTBE was much better and less invasive. I'd rather save corn for animal's (and our food) than put it into an internal combustion engine.

 

[JKendrick87]

Hello everyone,

The 362c is running very well and has a few tanks through it so far. I have a Bark Box and WCS 3pt dogs waiting for me to pick up.
I have been running the saw at 40:1 with the Stihl oil (JASO FB) but I have just picked up Red Armour and will transition to that.
First question - I can only get fuel where I am which contains up to 10% ethanol. Should I be putting a quality fuel stabilizer into the gas prior to adding the oil or is the oil alone enough?
Second question - from what I am understanding, the lower the mix ratio, the higher the lubricity within the engine. That said, is there any reason or has anyone ever used a ceramic treatment or a ceramic treated oil such as https://cermatreatment.com/products/max-2-cycle-multi-ratio-oil
https://advancedenginetech.com/high-class_lubricants-and-additives/micro-ceramic-oil/(Mods, I apologize if I can’t post links like this).
With the cost of goods and services these days anything that can extend the life and lower repair costs of saws is a good thing.

How much are you using the saw? I mix a gallon at a time 45-50:1 if I don’t get through it quickly I dump and start fresh. If you’re not using saw as much I recommend the red armor pre-mix will keep longer and better in your saw for longer periods as well.

 

[Rugger]

How much are you using the saw? I mix a gallon at a time 45-50:1 if I don’t get through it quickly I dump and start fresh. If you’re not using saw as much I recommend the red armor pre-mix will keep longer and better in your saw for longer periods as well.

I honestly don’t run the saw much at the moment. We are renting out our home on 20 acres and we are living in the city. I cut enough to have firewood for the pizza oven and a summer worth of camping and backyard fires as well as clearing out bush roads to access fishing spots.
I suppose I could get some Tru-Fuel or VP at 50:1 and add a touch of red armour to it and just use that until I’m back on my property.

 

[SteveSr]

I agree, MTBE was much better and less invasive. I'd rather save corn for animal's (and our food) than put it into an internal combustion engine.

The problem with MTBE was its toxicity and affinity for groundwater when it escaped from leaking underground storage tanks. This was the reason for the EPA's 1998 deadline to replace underground tanks and install leak detection. This caused the closure of a lot of small, old stations that didn't do enough fuel business to justify new tanks.

 

[StihlsawuserMS361]

I do remember the ill effects of MTBE leaching into the ground for the reason why the discontinuation of MTBE. I think the EPA also said that the jury was still out about the same happening with Ethanol, but they went with it anyways.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

I agree, MTBE was much better and less invasive. I'd rather save corn for animal's (and our food) than put it into an internal combustion engine.

Mtbe is still causing nasty environmental issues even after it was pulled. My wife has been dealing with the aftermath for decades...
It is very nasty stuff.

 

[Rugger]

I found VP for $11 quart so I’m going to use that with red armour mixed at 40:1 while the saw is stored and use premium pump gas when I’ll be running throughout the rest of the year.

 

[SteveSr]

I do remember the ill effects of MTBE leaching into the ground for the reason why the discontinuation of MTBE. I think the EPA also said that the jury was still out about the same happening with Ethanol, but they went with it anyways.

Ethanol doesn't have near the toxicity of MTBE... unless you choose to drink and drive!

 

[farfromiowa]

Hello everyone,

The 362c is running very well and has a few tanks through it so far. I have a Bark Box and WCS 3pt dogs waiting for me to pick up.
I have been running the saw at 40:1 with the Stihl oil (JASO FB) but I have just picked up Red Armour and will transition to that.
First question - I can only get fuel where I am which contains up to 10% ethanol. Should I be putting a quality fuel stabilizer into the gas prior to adding the oil or is the oil alone enough?
Second question - from what I am understanding, the lower the mix ratio, the higher the lubricity within the engine. That said, is there any reason or has anyone ever used a ceramic treatment or a ceramic treated oil such as https://cermatreatment.com/products/max-2-cycle-multi-ratio-oil
https://advancedenginetech.com/high-class_lubricants-and-additives/micro-ceramic-oil/(Mods, I apologize if I can’t post links like this).
With the cost of goods and services these days anything that can extend the life and lower repair costs of saws is a good thing.

The cerammic additive sounds like more snake oil such as the Slick 50 craze a few years ago....