I don't have time to read it in depth right now. Have at it.
Bohemian Club's 100-year logging permit revoked
Bohemian Club's 100-year logging permit revoked
Another Blow to California Loggers
- Thread starter 2dogs
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Same old stuff. The land owner makes a decision based on good forest management and the protesters find a judge who'll make a decision based on popular opinion and emotion.
The harvest plan sounded good to me...but I tend to be a little biased in these matters.
The harvest plan sounded good to me...but I tend to be a little biased in these matters.
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forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
Lol, those comments on that article at the bottom of the page are flat out silly.
If a tree is irreplaceable then why did I cut one down yesterday only to plant two today?
Do bears #### in the woods?
:monkey:
If a tree is irreplaceable then why did I cut one down yesterday only to plant two today?
Do bears #### in the woods?
:monkey:
The article is written as if they must not be allowed to log because they are rich white guys, not because it would hurt the forest.
Judges are not very good foresters.
Judges are not very good foresters.
forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
I agree with that.
I also still maintain my stance that the public really shouldn't have any input in how forest management activities are to be handled.
They can input all they want on recreation and the like, but let's leave forest management and logging to the professionals.
I'm not going to forestry school to have some regular Joe who doesn't have a clue about the difference between clearcutting and deforestation, tell me how to manage a forest or implement a timber harvest.
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paccity
Addicted to ArboristSite
and i hate media outlets that are so obviosly biased in how they write the articales.
Joe46
ArboristSite Guru
The real problem in this country is that there are a lot of judges who aren't real good judges.
Canthook Coasty
ArboristSite Operative
If this is private property, they should be allowed to do whatever they want. It’s not like they are planning to clear cut the whole area.
1.7 million Board feet a year over 100 years is not going to destroy the forest
1.7 million Board feet a year over 100 years is not going to destroy the forest
The article was mis-leading and definitely slanted to a preservationist view.
There's no such thing as a "100 year logging permit". The article inferred that once the THP (timber harvest plan) was in place that the owners were free to log as they wished for the next 100 years. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The State of California has ongoing oversight for logging done on private ground. When a THP is applied for it lists in great detail every animal species, water course, sensitive plants, erosion mitigation, stream siltation prevention, and a whole host of things that the logger and landowner must comply with. In an area as politically sensitive as the Bohemian Grove you can bet that they'll be giving it extra attention.
California has a problem with urban interface in logging operations and it's getting worse as time goes on. Near a heavily populated area it's become almost impossible to come up with a THP that pleases everybody. They're almost never granted without protests, appeals, litigation, injunctions, and any other delaying tactic that the preservationists can think up. The Truckee Tahoe area is a good example of this. The only logging that people are in favor of in that area is when they want a new ski run established.
Ask 2dogs about the Santa Cruz area...it's even worse.
So...the big flap about Bohemian Grove? Same old stuff. It will get logged eventually but they'll make the logger and landowner bear the brunt of restrictive THPs and that directly affects their profit margin. Makes 'em grumpy, too.
There's no such thing as a "100 year logging permit". The article inferred that once the THP (timber harvest plan) was in place that the owners were free to log as they wished for the next 100 years. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The State of California has ongoing oversight for logging done on private ground. When a THP is applied for it lists in great detail every animal species, water course, sensitive plants, erosion mitigation, stream siltation prevention, and a whole host of things that the logger and landowner must comply with. In an area as politically sensitive as the Bohemian Grove you can bet that they'll be giving it extra attention.
California has a problem with urban interface in logging operations and it's getting worse as time goes on. Near a heavily populated area it's become almost impossible to come up with a THP that pleases everybody. They're almost never granted without protests, appeals, litigation, injunctions, and any other delaying tactic that the preservationists can think up. The Truckee Tahoe area is a good example of this. The only logging that people are in favor of in that area is when they want a new ski run established.
Ask 2dogs about the Santa Cruz area...it's even worse.
So...the big flap about Bohemian Grove? Same old stuff. It will get logged eventually but they'll make the logger and landowner bear the brunt of restrictive THPs and that directly affects their profit margin. Makes 'em grumpy, too.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Back when I still worked with the FS (no laughing).
We had a fire, then went through all the processes and hoops to put out a modest recovery plan. Included harvesting of dead and dying plus cleaning up the mess some.
That went to court.
Judge through out the plan because there was a commentary on the effects of retardant that wasn't included.
1) It wasn't a scientific paper.
2) It was in the appendix, which was included with every single copy of the report we sent out.
===============
Our Ranger, of few words, commented on all the rich hardwoods from rain forests throughout the courtroom.
We had a fire, then went through all the processes and hoops to put out a modest recovery plan. Included harvesting of dead and dying plus cleaning up the mess some.
That went to court.
Judge through out the plan because there was a commentary on the effects of retardant that wasn't included.
1) It wasn't a scientific paper.
2) It was in the appendix, which was included with every single copy of the report we sent out.
===============
Our Ranger, of few words, commented on all the rich hardwoods from rain forests throughout the courtroom.
snowmaniac
ArboristSite Lurker
I started logging in 72 in Grass Valley Calif. It was great fun. Three log loads all day long. People respected you and what you did. It has been a slow steady deterioration ever since. A constant battle. I'm not sure whats been harder, the work or the politics. I sometimes wonder if in 20 years there will be any logging at all in USA.
clintthetreeman
New Member
I agree with you on that one snowman!
Though I may be several years younger than you, I to remember those days gone by. I spent a short time on the coast in the 80's working the big wood, and like you said, was respected. In Indiana, where I grew up, we used to hardly ever cut a tree under 4', unless they was clearing the woods for farm land, and I seen my share of that in the late 70's. I remember well when all the owl BS started, over night the demand shifted east, and soon the high production, smaller timber come into play here to take up the slack for what the west was no longer allowed to cut. The ignorant fools have cost a lot of jobs, wasted much more timber, and devistated many of the finest stands of hardwood timber in the east in the wake of it all. Course that's all on private ground. The goverment ground is a whole different story. They want sales to bring top dollar, but only mark mainly junk, just enough saw timber to attract bids. Friend just finished up a state job. Said they left a 4' walnut worth probably 40K standing, but marked 2 little poplar, only worth a hundred for both, on each side of it. Real brains there! Took the lightening rods away form it. Now it will get lightening struck, stand there for 20 years till the next harvest, and be marked as a cull to knock down! Yes your right, our timber industry probably will be gone, because of stupidity and lack of respect for the resource, and the people who truely know what they are doing in the woods!
Though I may be several years younger than you, I to remember those days gone by. I spent a short time on the coast in the 80's working the big wood, and like you said, was respected. In Indiana, where I grew up, we used to hardly ever cut a tree under 4', unless they was clearing the woods for farm land, and I seen my share of that in the late 70's. I remember well when all the owl BS started, over night the demand shifted east, and soon the high production, smaller timber come into play here to take up the slack for what the west was no longer allowed to cut. The ignorant fools have cost a lot of jobs, wasted much more timber, and devistated many of the finest stands of hardwood timber in the east in the wake of it all. Course that's all on private ground. The goverment ground is a whole different story. They want sales to bring top dollar, but only mark mainly junk, just enough saw timber to attract bids. Friend just finished up a state job. Said they left a 4' walnut worth probably 40K standing, but marked 2 little poplar, only worth a hundred for both, on each side of it. Real brains there! Took the lightening rods away form it. Now it will get lightening struck, stand there for 20 years till the next harvest, and be marked as a cull to knock down! Yes your right, our timber industry probably will be gone, because of stupidity and lack of respect for the resource, and the people who truely know what they are doing in the woods!
We still do quite a bit of logging around here. Not too many 3 log loads these days, though. Most of the logging is on private ground. The FS lets some little sales out once in awhile but it's usually junk and almost always goes to re-offer before it finally sells.
How long since you were in Grass Valley? It's become a yuppie retirement town, there's only one saw shop that knows anything, the Brunswick Mill is gone, and loggers are an endangered species now.
dingeryote
Blueberry Baron
Anybody do some digging into this Bohemian club?:msp_scared:
Not just rich white folks, Just Really,really affluent crazy whackos with an insane amount of political influence, that SHOULD transcend
ideological lines.
Those loonys could Buy the whole state with thier pocket change, or at least "gift" the judge nicely.
The whole "Sound and scientific based conservation practices and policy" seems to be just more empty words these days. Not just in Kalifornia either. It's spread all over, and it's a shame.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
Not just rich white folks, Just Really,really affluent crazy whackos with an insane amount of political influence, that SHOULD transcend
ideological lines.
Those loonys could Buy the whole state with thier pocket change, or at least "gift" the judge nicely.
The whole "Sound and scientific based conservation practices and policy" seems to be just more empty words these days. Not just in Kalifornia either. It's spread all over, and it's a shame.
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
snowmaniac
ArboristSite Lurker
We still do quite a bit of logging around here. Not too many 3 log loads these days, though. Most of the logging is on private ground. The FS lets some little sales out once in awhile but it's usually junk and almost always goes to re-offer before it finally sells.
How long since you were in Grass Valley? It's become a yuppie retirement town, there's only one saw shop that knows anything, the Brunswick Mill is gone, and loggers are an endangered species now.
I left Grass Valley in 79, worked mostly for Robinson Timber and some for Lausman Brothers when they had their own sawmill. Hung out at Duffys Success in Nevada City. All great memories.I think I got in on some of the last days of when logging was king..Miss the Sierras too, beautiful country.
Things have changed quite a bit since you left.
The mills at Celestial Valley and Camptonville are gone. The Truckee mill and the one at Loyalton have been closed for quite awhile. Likewise Sloat and Susanville.
Robinson is still going strong but almost everything gets hauled to Lincoln or Oroville now.
