Im wanting to cut this tree, but Im a little afraid of it- Im not that experienced with a saw. Its about 24" down near the fork. I've got a Stihl 028 with a 18" bar. Anybody know what kind of tree it is- I think its some kind of Elm. I may just leave it if its Elm. I've read too many horror stories about leaners here at the forums. I know it would be nothing to some of you guys, but Im a bit of a wimp.
Another Leaner
- Thread starter Airecon
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Now that is a leaner! The danger when cutting it is getting your saw trapped if you attempt an undercut. Don't even try unless you have a spare saw handy.
Anohter danger is a barber chair when you do the top cut. I would chain it before doing any cutting at all.
How to proceed? I'll let the experts give that advice.
Harry K
Anohter danger is a barber chair when you do the top cut. I would chain it before doing any cutting at all.
How to proceed? I'll let the experts give that advice.
Harry K
I would be looking at it as...
What will happen if I cut this? What will happen if I cut that?
What will it fall on and then what will happen? Will it hit another tree causing that tree or branch to fly back where I am standing?
What is above where I am cutting? Are there dead limbs which could fall on my head?
Are other trees supporting this branch? Should I remove these first? Or if I remove the supporting trees, will the whole works topple over on me?
Is there a tree under this large branch which will keep it from falling to the ground? Should I remove that tree first? What will happen if I leave that tree there and cut the main branch?
Can I cut a little off of this large branch at a time? Do it in sections? Is the only safe way to do this with a bucket truck? Do it one small section at a time?
What will happen if I cut this? What will happen if I cut that?
What will it fall on and then what will happen? Will it hit another tree causing that tree or branch to fly back where I am standing?
What is above where I am cutting? Are there dead limbs which could fall on my head?
Are other trees supporting this branch? Should I remove these first? Or if I remove the supporting trees, will the whole works topple over on me?
Is there a tree under this large branch which will keep it from falling to the ground? Should I remove that tree first? What will happen if I leave that tree there and cut the main branch?
Can I cut a little off of this large branch at a time? Do it in sections? Is the only safe way to do this with a bucket truck? Do it one small section at a time?
Start by cutting away the dead wood to inspect for rot in the crotch. Don't cut too deep and weaken the tree. Then cut your notch in about 1/5-1/4 the diameter while watching the tree for any movement. Use the tip of the bar as much as possible and ream while you are cutting this so the kerf stays open. Then cut down from the top a few inches and then cut the off side in a few inches. Finish with the end of the bar by cutting the rest of the way down while you are watching and listening. The tree may peal down or it may break, be prepared for either.
A longer bar and a bigger saw would be an advantage here. It helps to be able to stand back a foot more and cut with the end of the bar. Make sure your chain is sharp so the cut progresses quickly to prevent the tree from splitting. Even if it does that's OK as long as you stay safe. If it splits and the top of the tree hits the ground hook a choker to end and pull the tree sideways to break it off the stump.
If you are concerned then have someone more qualified take it down for you. After all it is just a tree and it isn't worth getting hurt over.
A longer bar and a bigger saw would be an advantage here. It helps to be able to stand back a foot more and cut with the end of the bar. Make sure your chain is sharp so the cut progresses quickly to prevent the tree from splitting. Even if it does that's OK as long as you stay safe. If it splits and the top of the tree hits the ground hook a choker to end and pull the tree sideways to break it off the stump.
If you are concerned then have someone more qualified take it down for you. After all it is just a tree and it isn't worth getting hurt over.
Nailsbeats
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thats a simple one. All you have to do is cut up from the bottom a few inches without pinching your bar, then cut from the top to meet the other cut. No notch needed. The bottom cut will act like a small notch. Watch your feet, when that bottom cut closes it should hold for a second then it will pop, fiber pull and release. From my view the tree is laying so flat that if you notch it you risk having the top hit the ground before the butt releases and then it will kick back at you, instant death hazzard. Very simple, but if you need more clarification be sure to ask.
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GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
You answered your question right in you post. Have someone else that knows how to get a tree like this on the ground do the job. This is a death trap waiting to happen for a novice cutter. Trees this large are not forgiving and can knock your teeth out or worse... kill you.
Then after it is on the ground you can limb it and buck it up to your hearts desire.
Gary
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sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
i'd recommend having someone else cut it....but this is how i'd do it....
A Modified Sput Cut..
bore out the heart of it leaving holding wood on the top and bottom(plenty on the top) cut the holding wood on the bottom(i cut in at angle from the stump side and cut my kerf wide so that the tree can close the kerf w/o getting pinched. once that is done cut the holding wood on the top. tree is down.
looks like a red oak to me
what part of KY you in?
A Modified Sput Cut..
bore out the heart of it leaving holding wood on the top and bottom(plenty on the top) cut the holding wood on the bottom(i cut in at angle from the stump side and cut my kerf wide so that the tree can close the kerf w/o getting pinched. once that is done cut the holding wood on the top. tree is down.
looks like a red oak to me
what part of KY you in?
I probably won't cut it, just seems too dangerous to me. I just hate not to give it a try and not be able to drop it on the ground. I thought about once, tieing a ladder to the end and cutting off a little at a time, but Id probably fall and break my neck. I don't need the wood, so I better play it safe and just leave it alone. Im in western KY.
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HUSKYMAN
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thats the way I would cut it too. If you dont cut up from the bottom a few inches it will split for about 10-15 feet right up the middle. If you dont care about a split just start cutting from the top but slowly. Cutting slowly will give you plenty of time to recognize when the tree is making its move
HUSKYMAN
Addicted to ArboristSite
DO NOT tie a ladder on the end. THAT is the way to get hurt.
Tom D.
ArboristSite Lurker
Not trying to advise, just asking a question --
The tree looks to be around 45 degrees from horizontal. How about a creating a notch on the bottom of say 30 degrees, and then bore cutting? The two faces of the notch should close before the tree hits the ground ensuring that the hinge breaks and the butt doesn't get hung up. The bore cut should prevent barber chairing. Also, I'd go for a pretty shallow notch to reduce the risk of pinching the saw during the undercut.
Thoughts? Any risks I'm not thinking of?
The tree looks to be around 45 degrees from horizontal. How about a creating a notch on the bottom of say 30 degrees, and then bore cutting? The two faces of the notch should close before the tree hits the ground ensuring that the hinge breaks and the butt doesn't get hung up. The bore cut should prevent barber chairing. Also, I'd go for a pretty shallow notch to reduce the risk of pinching the saw during the undercut.
Thoughts? Any risks I'm not thinking of?
Marc
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's exactly what I was thinking, but I don't have tremendous experience. I use the shallow (1/4 diameter) open notch (90 degree) with a bore cut and a back strap thickness proportional to the moment of the tree. When you know you can evacuate in a hurry if need be, start thinning the back strap until it falls.
I'd also chain the trunk or use a couple load straps just to be sure it doesn't barber chair... that's my SOP for any heavy leaner.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
This guy is a novice and you are talking bore cut a controversial
dangerous cut to start with! I never use a bore cut in millions of leaners
and never had a problem with barberchair. The standard and humbolt
with no bore is all I use. I do sometimes use a ratchet binder to prevent
chair on hollow trees but the kickback danger from sticking the tip
into a tree is too great to advise anyone to practice it.
dangerous cut to start with! I never use a bore cut in millions of leaners
and never had a problem with barberchair. The standard and humbolt
with no bore is all I use. I do sometimes use a ratchet binder to prevent
chair on hollow trees but the kickback danger from sticking the tip
into a tree is too great to advise anyone to practice it.
Marc
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well neither of us explicitly advised him specifically to use the bore cut. More pontification than anything.
I started using the bore cut when I assisted a pro logger (on "haitus") clearing some land over the course of two years as part of a part time job. I learned the feel for it and the best ways to do it (only with a sharp chain, fast speed, and to begin with the bottom edge of the bar, and of course with full PPE). In those two years, he made several of these cuts and used it several different ways without incident. Since then I have as well. *shrug* I find it to be invaluable for easy splitting leaners like red oak and ash.
I started using the bore cut when I assisted a pro logger (on "haitus") clearing some land over the course of two years as part of a part time job. I learned the feel for it and the best ways to do it (only with a sharp chain, fast speed, and to begin with the bottom edge of the bar, and of course with full PPE). In those two years, he made several of these cuts and used it several different ways without incident. Since then I have as well. *shrug* I find it to be invaluable for easy splitting leaners like red oak and ash.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
That is why I wouldn't even begin to tell a guy how to do a job he isn't even comfortable doin,.
The bore cut is grossly overused.
Gary
The bore cut is grossly overused.
Gary
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
+1 I can see why a logger every once in a while would use the cut
but being that every safety issue in the book seems to have kickback
in it; avoiding contact with the bar tip is a priority. My insurance keeps
going up because of kickbacks in some form or fashion.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
I've cut a lot of trees in my time... I can prolly count on one hand the times i have used a bore cut.
Gary
Gary
sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
i wish i could count the amount of bore cuts ive had to do......many every day day...
I agree. I also agree with Gary here. I know how to do various bore cuts but most of the bores I've done were for practice or fun.
My bar of choice is a wide nose Cannon or Stihl. ( I do want to add a reduced weight Oregon to the lineup too.) They are more likely to kick back than most bars and if my technique is off, which it sometimes is, they are just plain gonna kick back trying to bore. Now on little trees, say 16-18" DBH, and an 18 or 20" bar boring is pretty safe. For one thing most bars that short are going to have a narrow nose. Getting that wide nose 28" or longer bar started in a bore cut is no time to screw up or lose focus and it should not be attempted by someone with little experience. Master the standard methods first.
ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Ever try it without a bore? Are you just a bore addict?
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