Another stump grinding nightmare.

[Toddppm]

I've learned after 14 yrs at this job, NEVER ,EVER give a set over-the-phone price.... I will give a price range (i.e. high/low)...even though its been proven all the customer hears is the "low"...I stress that it is only an estimate and that it's not firm til I see the job...
Believe me "over-the-phone " and "thru -the -windshield" estimates will bite you every time....and I always,always,always go over with the cuastomer of exactly what I will do and what I will not do...including the price and how/when I get paid.....before I unload & start the job...
Most phone customer really have no clue as to what size the stumps actually are...Most that call me say.."oh ,its about a foot or so..." When its more like a yard or so!!!!

I will confirm All of that! Especially the windshield pricing and they only hear the lowest price of the range you give them@!

 

[Creeker]

Have to give you top marks for dedication to the job topbuilder. The only job I've not finished was so bad with large rocks about 6" under the surface, (after I thought I had mattocked them all out), I just walked away from the job.

Didn't worry about the 25 mile travel each way or the wrecked cutters and no charge to the customer.

Thought it was better to walk off the job than continue to do damage.

It's each persons decision of course and well done to finish your "nice" one with the steel posts.

 

[Topbuilder]

Have to give you top marks for dedication to the job topbuilder. The only job I've not finished was so bad with large rocks about 6" under the surface, (after I thought I had mattocked them all out), I just walked away from the job.

Didn't worry about the 25 mile travel each way or the wrecked cutters and no charge to the customer.

Thought it was better to walk off the job than continue to do damage.

It's each persons decision of course and well done to finish your "nice" one with the steel posts.

Thanks Creeker. I know you have it rough there! We have zero natural rock in our ground in my area. If I hit something, someone put it there. If I only damage teeth 1 out of 40 jobs I feel like I'm pretty lucky and the expense is spread out over many jobs.

 

[Cupocoffee]

I give estimates over the phone all the time with the caveat that I always measure the stumps myself. It has worked fine for me. Most people give me a fair measurement. I never work by the hour. The customer knows exactly the price of the job before I start. One day I got a call from a lady who wanted to know how much it would cost to grind a stump. I asked her what the diameter was and she said she was not good with measurements. I asked if it was the size of a basketball hoop and she said she never played basketball. I asked if it was the size of a dinner plate and she said, "Yes, about like a dinner plate." I asked how high the stump was and again she said she wasn't good with measurements. I asked if it was higher than her knees and she said it was about knee high. I told her if that was the correct size it would fall into my $80.00 minimum price. When I got there, the stump was a monster that had three feeder roots that were over 12" diameter and twenty feet long and several smaller ones. I told her I would do the stump for $800.00 and she said, "You told me it would be $80." I reminded her that she said it was about the size of a dinner plate. I love, love, love stump grinding but once or twice per year I'll have a bizarre story like this. Oh, and I did not get the job. Ha!

 

[Steve-Maine]

I have done stump grinding for over 45 years. Never did a job I didn't look at first. never had any surprises that way. Never grind a stump that was burning. In Maine we have to call Dig Safe first, that why you have to go to job site and mark the stumps to be done. The first job I did I hauled away all chips. Never again. I have only lost one job because I wouldn't haul away chips. If you do a $100 job, you should charge another $200 to haul chips. More money in Grinding that hauling chips.










First

I will confirm All of that! Especially the windshield pricing and they only hear the lowest price of the range you give them@!

 

[Cupocoffee]

I have done stump grinding for over 45 years. Never did a job I didn't look at first. never had any surprises that way. Never grind a stump that was burning. In Maine we have to call Dig Safe first, that why you have to go to job site and mark the stumps to be done. The first job I did I hauled away all chips. Never again. I have only lost one job because I wouldn't haul away chips. If you do a $100 job, you should charge another $200 to haul chips. More money in Grinding that hauling chips.




I'm with you on that, Steve. I NEVER have hauled off a bit of chips. I have never had a customer ask me to. I think that is part of the reason I love stump grinding ... because I just grind stumps and go about my business. I do, however, do a "rough coverup" of the hole because I have a blade on my SP7015. I am 67 years old and using a shovel and hauling chips would do me in.

 

[066blaster]

I give estimates over the phone all the time with the caveat that I always measure the stumps myself. It has worked fine for me. Most people give me a fair measurement. I never work by the hour. The customer knows exactly the price of the job before I start. One day I got a call from a lady who wanted to know how much it would cost to grind a stump. I asked her what the diameter was and she said she was not good with measurements. I asked if it was the size of a basketball hoop and she said she never played basketball. I asked if it was the size of a dinner plate and she said, "Yes, about like a dinner plate." I asked how high the stump was and again she said she wasn't good with measurements. I asked if it was higher than her knees and she said it was about knee high. I told her if that was the correct size it would fall into my $80.00 minimum price. When I got there, the stump was a monster that had three feeder roots that were over 12" diameter and twenty feet long and several smaller ones. I told her I would do the stump for $800.00 and she said, "You told me it would be $80." I reminded her that she said it was about the size of a dinner plate. I love, love, love stump grinding but once or twice per year I'll have a bizarre story like this. Oh, and I did not get the job. Ha!

View attachment 377670

She meant to say dinner table. I just had another one. Lady said 32 inch silver maple, get there an it's 3 foot high. The base was like 5 feet with big surface roots every where. I had told her 120. I looked at it and said it's bigger than described. She said it didn't have to be very low because they were adding fill to that area to level their lawn so I said ok. I cut it off and ground it to ground level , she looked at it, paid me, and I left. Next day I get a call from her husband that it's not good enough. Went back spent another hour on it. A tuff on the machine hour, and she gave me a extra 20 like she was giving me a tip. I said for future reference that would be considered a 5 foot stump.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Fund days stumping, storm blew the tree over, lifting the plots

 

[Cupocoffee]

That would be a first! Ha!

 

[Toddppm]

Creepy!

 

[TimberMcPherson]

the results were pretty good, managers were impressed

 

[Creeker]

Good results TMc, nothing like a happy customer.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Thanks, they have been good enough to give us another challenge, They want the plot moved back into place so the stump has to go. Hmmm wont be a job for a rg66

 

[VitalityTree]

Removed an old nasty rotten silver maple on a farm site this year. The tree must have grown around the scrap iron pile. It had everything imaginable in it horseshoes, rocks, cultivator shovels, etc. it just destroyed a dozen or so teeth and broke a few pocket bolts. I somewhat rotated teeth to get some edges back. I pretty much worked the **** out of my grinder with the half sharp teeth. I didn't want to throw a brand new set and destroy them too. I charged her for the damaged or broken teeth and she understood why. From now on I let customers know that if debris is in THEIR stump and excessive damage is done they will be paying for my broken stuff.

 

[VitalityTree]

I've had 3 incidents since I opened my stump grinding business 5 years ago. I have owned 4 different machines, presently use a Rayco 1635. First nightmare I had was while removing a huge soft maple stump. I think one of the pill block bearings was depleted of grease, all of a sudden I heard a large bang, the machine stalled. Bearing was cracked, and there was a large fissure in the steel holding the cutter wheel on the machine. I think this occurred because the machine was previously damaged, and I recently acquired it.

Had another terrible day today! Once again, I got a job removing a "3' foot" soft maple stump that was more like 6' feet lol. Got about two thirds of the way through the stump when I heard a loud bang, and the machine kicked back! I must of hit something hard with in stump, maybe a rock or piece of steel. I lost it after that, told my client to go back to school, and learn how to use a measuring tape. He paid me $350 so I would leave his property, I was pretty furious. Fortunately the machine seems to be ok. It lurched back about a foot, and the front wheels of the machine bounced into the air! First for me, I think I'm going to invest in a metal detector, and walk away from more jobs like this. Its a lot easier to write off gas, than a broken machine come tax time.

 

[Steve-Maine]

I will confirm All of that! Especially the windshield pricing and they only hear the lowest price of the range you give them@!

I started grinding stumps right out of college in 63. Had an old model 6 Vermeer. Always went to job site to give an estimate. Always marked stump for dig safe and drew diagram of work so customer couldn't add more stumps. Worked out very well. Sold the business in 04. Has a lot of repeat customers plus doing stumps for 4 other tree companies.

 

[066blaster]

I sold my grinder 2 years ago. Didn't really have time and machine was getting worn out. I would like to get another maybe a 362 or bigger. If i do my new rule would be to add a hundred dollars to any big silver maple estimate. I also did 3 huge cottonwood stumps 4-5 foot across. I was just burried in chips. I am guessing there are a lot of Ash tree stumps that need grinding now. I wasn't a big fan of those. really fine dust, need a mask when grinding

 

[iowagold]

as a repair tech... I get asked for estimates all of the time...
I have 2 rates new clients and current clients...
my good clients know I just charge a basic rate and the client buys all the materials...
this might be a good plan for those who are doing any tree work...
let the clients know any breakage of the equipment during the job is added to the bill...
and get it in writing for the new clients.

my best story is a new client wanted a set price...
I just said "I do not do biz that way"
they said "well how about $200.00?"
I just said "ok"...
well the job only took maybe 15min...
we it was done they wanted to hand me the $200.00
I just asked "do you have any change?"
they did, I only charge 35.00 as a min charge so I gave the rest back..
"this is why I only charge what it takes... some times things are not as bad as it looks.."

hard to do a guestimate even if you are at the job site!!
lot's of stuff can and will go wrong...

these days I have a closed group of clients they know to just drop it off and I will let them know what is up.
most of the gear I work on is at least $100K in value...
lol and a few of the units have been to almost every shop in the area and they could not get it!!
I had 2 of those as of late!
I love being the hero!
I had one of the shops call as even asked what I had found!!
my reply was "the tech who looked at it was under educated"
"and the client took it to some one who was over educated and it was repaired"

as an engineer I can say things like that... lol!

have faith... make a drive, go to the site, get an idea of what is up, and buy a metal detector so you can do your locates!!
and do not forget to place that call to one call for the utilities locates as well!!

stump grinding is a rough biz... as well as any tree service!! hard way to make a buck!
you have to love what you are doing to make it worth while!
lol and a stump grinder is not a scarify machine so try not to feed it rocks!! lol

that brings up a good question does any one make diamond cutters for these wheels???
some good carbide with industrial diamond might be just the ticket for the rock infested areas and stumps with rocks and sand inside..
a bit of water to cool the cutter? a bit of high speed grind?

I always watch my grind angles and % of cut... no hog of the material and no over cut...
slow and steady wins the race on this stuff..

stay safe out there!!
lol and have fun!!

 

[Topbuilder]

Congrats!! You have literally resurrected a thread from the dead. Straight out of a grave yard.
After grinding for over ten years, 1000's of hours, my self imposed rule still holds - If you lose money on a job, make sure the customer is happy.
You are going to "find" things. You are going to break parts. I thought about it this way, If every job I charged and set aside a $10 bill to pay for the 1 in 100 job where I "found" something , Could I pay for the repairs without having to collect every penny from the homeowner and risk the relationship? For me, the answer was/is YES!

Here is some of the thinks I have hit: 1) A flywheel. The home owner just finished telling me there was no need raking around the stump to find any debris. It was clean. 2) A master cylinder. Not the same job. In the woods in the middle of nowhere. 3) A railroad spike. Last pass on a smallish stump , It was buried right in the middle. It took out two pocket bolts and 3-4 teeth. 3) T-posts. All shapes and sizes. 4) Angle iron. 5) 3/4" rebar. It was 20' long. It got sucked all the way around the cutting head. I had to go home and get a liquid wrench to cut it off. Trashed pockets and teeth. I was very happy there was not more damage to the machine or me. I collected a couple hundred bucks extra on that one. My loss was more. I kept my cool. I did thousands of dollars of work for that man after that. And his neighbor. 6) Bricks, lots of bricks. Some embedded in the stump. I did a eucalyptus that had 8' of concrete border completely embedded in stumps and roots. 7) I hit a 3/4 conduit one time that had 220v electric in it. It was buried about 4" deep. Turns out it was powering a 1800 sq ft home! OK, that lady was not happy when I left. She asked me if I was going to fix it. I said "no, you need to call the electrician who did the job wrong". It was her husband...

Point is, things happen. Make sure you charge enough to cover them. Stay safe and good luck with it,
Top

 

[iowagold]

I sold my grinder 2 years ago. Didn't really have time and machine was getting worn out. I would like to get another maybe a 362 or bigger. If i do my new rule would be to add a hundred dollars to any big silver maple estimate. I also did 3 huge cottonwood stumps 4-5 foot across. I was just burried in chips. I am guessing there are a lot of Ash tree stumps that need grinding now. I wasn't a big fan of those. really fine dust, need a mask when grinding

oh yes with the full PPE gear!! as well as good muffs.. I do ear plugs and muffs... covered for both sound and trash that way.
dang dust over time will make a lung r out of you...
I always like a cool dry windy days for grinding...
and get up wind... at least when you can....
hard to do with some of this larger grind gear unless you have radio remote...

yea lots more trees dead these last few years with bugs and other things...
so more stumps for 2020 and 2021 to work on.

I did my property as no trees back in 2010 and 2011 28 trash trees and one big 100' sick tree...
a little at a time... a couple of basket machines good stihl saw and trac skid loader with grapple and good dump trailer ...
4 days with a small manual stump grinder..
looks good now!! and even has grass on it 10 years later.