Another underground insulated pipe question

[psu927]

Did some reading here already and looking for some updated answers. If I run the pre-made 4" black corrugated pipe, with the wrapped 1" pex lines inside (the stuff that's about 5-6$ a foot) has anyone had problems with it getting wet if done properly? as in maybe gravel underneath and the pipe is surrounded my sand?

 

[cantoo]

Not the place to try and save money unless you have ideal conditions.
PS, I know of no one who has ideal conditions.
You might want to keep reading before you make a decision.
Lots of stories of bad installs using cheaper lines and homemade lines. Very few of people who have had the higher priced stuff fail, I know a few but very very few.
Make sure you do a real cost estimate if you plan to make your own. I made one section of my own and by the time I was done I had almost as much invested as my Logstor was and I still have a risk of water infiltration.

 

[hupte]

i bought the $5.50 per foot stuff your talking about. i installed it properly and surrounded it completely with sand back in 2010. then i did just as was recommended and mounded the dirt up over the trench, and didnt drive over it with anything for a year. that way i let mother nature compact the trench. then leveled the dirt off and been running on it ever since. its about 4 ft down. if i could go back and do it again i'd use the log store stuff. and put it inside of a hard pvc pipe just to overkill it. well worth the investment and it constantly pays for its self in wood savings. i loose about 5 degrees in 70 feet.

ya gotta think about 5 years down the road, are you gonna wish you had saved more money? or are you gonna wish you had done it right, and done it once, and know you'll never need to do it again?? everyday when you come home and the water in your house has lost 5+* from the boiler. will you wish you'd spent the money and done it right?

 

[Landmark]

We installed some inground for a owb and tried to make the insulated pipe to save money. After doing math it was not the savings that we thought. As cheap to buy the factory stuff and it will be more efficient imo.

 

[AIM]

BUY THE BEST YOU CAN BUY!!!! Try to save money ANYWHERE else but in your lines!!!

 

[Rockarosa]

I just replaced 100 feet of the $5 a foot. It was full of groundwater. I was going to buy the same pex and run it through schedule 40. By the time I figured the cost I would have around $9.50 a foot with elbows. You can buy Rehau at around $10 a foot which is good but I would have had to pay shipping which brought the cost up. I went to a Central Boiler dealer and paid $ 12.50 a foot for Thermopex and installed it. I can't believe the difference in my heat and wood usage. I figure I am burning 30% less wood and the house is warm. The dealer told me in the 11 years they sold Thermopex not one person has complained of a failure. It is hard to work with but I'll never have to do it again. Don't waste your money and hard work on the corrugated pex.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

When I did my install I used 8 inch Hi-Q (smooth bore) tile for my pex run from the stove. I have a 4 inch perf tile under this with it all surrounded by pea gravel. I even ran a rope in there and left it for a future replace if needed. At the time, this was the only style of pex that was available per the dealer. As others have said, go with the good stuff. I'd still do the same on my run as it goes under my garage floor and driveway so I can easily replace ANY style of line if needed. It'll pay for itself rather quickly so do NOT try to skimp here.

 

[psu927]

Good info guys. Just really hard to spend 1200+ on piping. How do the failures usually occur?

 

[psu927]

I'm really leaning toward the ez-wrap piping. I see no way for water infiltration if it's installed properly. The only water I have since I live on top of a hill is rainwater. It's a gamble I'm possibly willing to take for 6-800$ savings. They claim 5-wrap loses about 1 degree in 100'

 

[NSMaple1]

I wouldn't use the wrapped stuff.

But it is your money.

 

[rancher2]

I have a 400 foot run to my house. We spray foamed it in the trench. I have a total of four lines. It has been in nine year's and no problems. Don't skimp on the pipe install.

 

[AIM]

BUY THE BEST YOU CAN BUY!!!! Try to save money ANYWHERE else but in your lines!!!

 

[cantoo]

This is solid Big O tile. Do you want your lawn or driveway to look like this in a few years, again? Last pic is my 30' of homemade run, ended up being almost as much per foot as the Logstor run to my son's house. And was a pain in the azz to do, in fact I still haven't finished the insulation on the pipe section inside the house yet.

 

[hupte]

I'm really leaning toward the ez-wrap piping. I see no way for water infiltration if it's installed properly. The only water I have since I live on top of a hill is rainwater. It's a gamble I'm possibly willing to take for 6-800$ savings. They claim 5-wrap loses about 1 degree in 100'

i heard the same claim for the stuff i bought. and thats why i bought it... what they aren't telling you is you loose 1 degree in 100ft when the water temp is 100 degrees and the temp outside the pipe is 70 degrees. i found the actual charts once but i cant find em again... how bout asking to see the figures they give you??? ask to see the charts and tests that loose 1 degree in 100 ft? cause i have the 3 wrap and my boiler temp is 170. and i loose 5 degrese in 70ft.

 

[psu927]

i heard the same claim for the stuff i bought. and thats why i bought it... what they aren't telling you is you loose 1 degree in 100ft when the water temp is 100 degrees and the temp outside the pipe is 70 degrees. i found the actual charts once but i cant find em again... how bout asking to see the figures they give you??? ask to see the charts and tests that loose 1 degree in 100 ft? cause i have the 3 wrap and my boiler temp is 170. and i loose 5 degrese in 70ft.

Good idea.

 

[J1m]

I was in your shoes about 5 years ago when we were considering installing our OWB. I kept coming up with similar information - sure, you can go with the budget pipe, but those that have gone that route have almost **to a person** regretted doing so. If you want to do the project once and then forget about it - you have two basic choices: Thermopex or Logstor/Urecon. If you want to see how much snow you can melt and then stress about all the wood you're wasting, and then replace the wrapped stuff anyway in 5 or 6 years - go with the budget stuff.

I ended up going with Logstor at $14 a foot (OUCH!). I run my boiler at 200* at a run of 110 feet. The aquastat where my pipe enters the house says 200ish when the boiler is up to temp and I get zero snow melt.

Hey, as the other guys have said - it's your money.

 

[Rockarosa]

I put the 3 wrap in 7 years ago. When I asked the dealer about running it through schedule 40, he said that I would be wasting money. He told me that you could run over the corrugated pex with a truck and not hurt it. If you run the corrugated by itself it will fail. You figure by the time you run it through 6 inch schedule 40 how much money you will have in it. In the long run it's easier and cheaper to run Logstar or Thermopex or the Rehau. Do it once, I found out the dealer pushed this because that's what he had in stock. By the way-he is no longer in business.

 

[psu927]

I put the 3 wrap in 7 years ago. When I asked the dealer about running it through schedule 40, he said that I would be wasting money. He told me that you could run over the corrugated pex with a truck and not hurt it. If you run the corrugated by itself it will fail. You figure by the time you run it through 6 inch schedule 40 how much money you will have in it. In the long run it's easier and cheaper to run Logstar or Thermopex or the Rehau. Do it once, I found out the dealer pushed this because that's what he had in stock. By the way-he is no longer in business.

How is yours doing so far?

 

[Rockarosa]

So far it was well worth the work and money. My house is warm and I am burning 25% to 30% less wood. M y install was easier this time because I had purchased a 3 point backhoe attachment for my New Holland T C 30 tractor. This is my 8th winter with my Cozeburn OWB. If I can swing it I would like to buy a new conventional boiler before the new EPA laws come in next April in Pensyvannia. I don't know what my OWB is worth, I live in Ohio but the dealer told me they will not be allowed to sell conventionals after April in P.a. Ohio still does not have a law banning the conventional boiler yet.

 

[Landmark]

thermopex or bust!