Any downside to a block-out face cut for control?

[s219]

I have an 80 ft poplar to bring down that I want to have sawn up for lumber, and to harvest the bark for poplar shakes. So I'd like to bring it down gently to minimize any damage to the bark.

I was thinking of using a block-out face cut, since it would extend the fiber zone of the hinge as it flexes, and hopefully bring the tree down more slowly and gently. But I also have a fairly narrow opening (about 20 feet wide) to drop the tree into, to avoid damaging some beeches we want to protect. So I need to aim this tree carefully and have it fall on the money.

My thinking has always been that, barring any asymmetry/rot in the wood or other factors, the direction of the face and back cuts setup the hinge, and that determines the direction of fall. I just wanted to get a sanity check here, and make sure the use of a block-out face wouldn't compromise any control or let the tree turn more than usual. Any comments?

Since this is poplar, I should be able to make the top and bottom block cuts with the saw and then knock the block out with the back of an axe head. That ought to keep the fibers more intact than a case where the block had to be sawn out.

Thanks for any feedback,
219

 

[056kid]

Unless your dealing with side lean, no the block face won't compromise accuracy. Just make sure your snipe or scarf is pointed in the right direction! I reckon I would take a big block out, the bigger the more bend you get so hopefully the slower it will commit. As for using it axe to beat the block out, go ahead and give it a go, I think youll end up sawing it out. Don't worry, as long as you match earything up you won't be giving up anything. Boring in vertically behind the block might even slow it more. What dbh is said poplar anyhow?

 

[s219]

056, thanks for the input. The poplar is right around 20-22" dbh, and I reckon 18" over most of the trunk. It's one of those long straight poplars with a lollipop top that must have grown like a weed -- it can't be very old based on what I know about previous timbering operations here, but I won't know for sure until I count the rings.

I figure I will cut in 1/4-1/3 diameter when making the block, and use about the same sizing for the block height, plus a little more to give it room to go over all the way. It would actually be good if the butt stayed on the stump while we harvest the bark -- that would keep it out of the mud and give room for cutting rings in the bark.

I will definitely keep eyeballing the sights with this one! The good news is that the tree is very sound top to bottom, so I should have time to make the cuts precisely and adjust if needed.

 

[RandyMac]

1/4 to 1/3? go 45% for a block cut.

 

[trees2]

Why don't you just use an open face notch? There is nothing safer or better than that. Unless you rig it down . How close can you get to it with a truck or is it in the bush? What's the ground like around it ? flat , rocky , steep .

 

[Gologit]

Why don't you just use an open face notch? There is nothing safer or better than that. Unless you rig it down . How close can you get to it with a truck or is it in the bush? What's the ground like around it ? flat , rocky , steep .

A block cut face, especially if you use a snipe on it, will let the tree down a little easier and give more control over how fast it falls.

The OP is trying to avoid damage to the tree and a block face will help him with that.

The block face is one of the cuts we use out here on large brittle timber to help avoid breakage and damage.

 

[madhatte]

There is nothing safer or better than that.

Careful with "absolutes". There's -- ahem -- always an exception.

 

[Gologit]

Careful with "absolutes". There's -- ahem -- always an exception.

I dunno...maybe East of the Rockies there's some kind of weird gravitational coriolois effect anti-matter kinda sorta scientifical thing that allows absolutes in timber cutting. Could be.

Hey...you've been to school...speak to us in formulae. :msp_biggrin:

 

[137cc]

Not again

Why don't you just use an open face notch? There is nothing safer or better than that. Unless you rig it down . How close can you get to it with a truck or is it in the bush? What's the ground like around it ? flat , rocky , steep .

Sounds like we have another who has been schooled by GOL. I wonder what level logger he is?

 

[madhatte]

Hey...you've been to school...speak to us in formulae. :msp_biggrin:

((1/(distance from Mississippi River in miles)^current local magnetic declination in degrees)*(bar length in inches/wood hardness in Rockwell units)) / (who's your daddy) = best cut to use




To clarify, declination will be an "E" or "W" value depending on location, and are to be expressed as a (+) value for "E" and (-) value for "W". This is not to infer that "E" is somehow better than "W", but rather to conform to the English-language convention of writing left-to-right on the page.

 

[s219]

1/4 to 1/3? go 45% for a block cut.

Can you go into more detail on that -- like what the mechanics are of a deeper block? I was thinking normal type of ~33% depth for the block, and then a snipe on the stump to give the butt some room as it goes over.

I will sketch the cuts out with chalk before committing -- that should let me eyeball the proportions of everything and tweak it to look right (I'm of the notion that you know it's good when the cut looks right). I don't normally think about it this much, but there is a lot riding on this one tree....

 

[Gologit]

Sounds like we have another who has been schooled by GOL. I wonder what level logger he is?

Meh, he's not too bad a guy...for an easterner. He's actually made some pretty sensible posts.

Besides, he and I have a deal....no East-West arguing. That deal is probably as much a burden on him as it is on me.

 

[Gologit]

Can you go into more detail on that -- like what the mechanics are of a deeper block? I was thinking normal type of ~33% depth for the block, and then a snipe on the stump to give the butt some room as it goes over.

I will sketch the cuts out with chalk before committing -- that should let me eyeball the proportions of everything and tweak it to look right (I'm of the notion that you know it's good when the cut looks right). I don't normally think about it this much, but there is a lot riding on this one tree....

The snipe is important, too. Some guys tend to cut it a little too steep, too much of an angle, and all it does is drop the butt a little quicker.

 

[Gologit]

((1/(distance from Mississippi River in miles)^current local magnetic declination in degrees)*(bar length in inches/wood hardness in Rockwell units)) / (who's your daddy) = best cut to use




To clarify, declination will be an "E" or "W" value depending on location, and are to be expressed as a (+) value for "E" and (-) value for "W". This is not to infer that "E" is somehow better than "W", but rather to conform to the English-language convention of writing left-to-right on the page.

Yeah! That's exactly the same equation I came up with.

 

[GASoline71]

But he forgot the Copenhagen Coefficient... more snoose = less stump shot...

Gary

 

[RandyMac]

But he forgot the Copenhagen Coefficient... more snoose = less stump shot...

Gary

fiber puller

 

[GASoline71]

I am a closet fiber puller...

Gary

 

[trees2]

How may years have most of you been falling timber for ?

 

[Gologit]

But he forgot the Copenhagen Coefficient... more snoose = less stump shot...

Gary

You're right! He missed some things. He also forgot the effect of having leather laces in one boot and nylon in the other.

And there's the mis-matched sock syndrome.

The "one suspension tab busted off on your tin hat" can completely throw all your calculations into turmoil...and causes many mismatched cuts.

And we shouldn't leave out the total summation of the negative traction reaction when your calks are worn down a little too far.

Maybe we better send Nate down to HSU for a refresher course?

 

[RandyMac]

I am a closet fiber puller...

Gary

TMI Gary.
I'm too tired to be constructive, resorting to arcane insults.