Avalanchers fireside chat.Pull up a chair.

[KsPete]

[/QUOTE]I wonder where the person lived who wrote the article and if he worked for the oil companies?

hmmmmm......


I have an idea, anytime anyone says something bad about us wood burners, accuse them of being hired pawns of the oil industry. :chainsawguy:
Then pull up pictures of all the cute baby seals (aka: whale chow) that died due to oil accidents and remind them that not one baby seal every died from having a tree fall on it head. :hmm3grin2orange:[/QUOTE]

I doubt it's the oil guys, they're under assault like everyone else who uses energy sources that requires burning to use. More than likely it's a tree hugging environmentalist who wants mankind to regress back before fire was discovered to be the wonderful soul-warming flame that it is.

 

[willsaw4beer]

All I can say about the gov't. taking away my woodstove is over my warm dead body...

 

[flotek]

no woodstove or OWB is safe as long as there are democrats in office

 

[MotorSeven]

Brews?

did Avalancher mention beer?

oh, right, wait he did write something else.....

Yes, nothing is sacred in our country anymore. I am guilty of sitting around on my duff & not getting involved. Well, lately I have found myself writing my congressmen. I will end up getting more involved as more chunks of freedom are chipped away by the moron majority. It's sad, but I ain't going down quietly.

no brews tonight, only homemade wine, a austrailian shiraz-merlot....full bodied, dry, a hint of oak,..... or walnut, or hickory....or......

RD

 

[Grubs]

Its cold outside, and the wife is dragging in some cold brews for us.........

How many wood burning, chainsaw wielding, redneck yokals with stoves and OWBs have drafty houses with poor insulation and think the solution to cold nights is to laugh manically at the moon as they shovel more and more wood into the fire!

If the answer is "most of them" then there is a case to answer. Standing on your high horse claming the atmosphere is big enough to do whatever you want or resting your shotgun on the knees of your forefathers while you spout off about your civil rights is "poor form" in this day and age.

Personally I find that when you have to chop your own wood it makes you very congnisant of the energy efficiency of your house and so you go the extra mile with insulation and double glasing. For my house I think the energy we *save* by not needing to run airconditioners in summer goes a long way towards offsetting pollution we generate from our tiny wood stove in winter - especially when you consider that in this state most electricity is generated from filthy brown coal.


We should be talking about how to increase heating efficiency of existing technologies (including wood) because that applies to *everyone*.

 

[spike60]

There's only so much freedom that we can lose and still wake up in a world that we still want to live in.

There's only so much change that I can accept without going postal. There are some lines beyond which I will not be pushed. The mere fact that I law is passed does not mean that I will comply with it.

Remember that the New Englanders' who fired on the English troops at Lexington and Concord still considered themselves to be British subjects at the time. They were not fighting a foreign power; that's why it was called a revolution.

the Green Nazis!

 

[willsaw4beer]

There's only so much freedom that we can lose and still wake up in a world that we still want to live in.

There's only so much change that I can accept without going postal. There are some lines beyond which I will not be pushed. The mere fact that I law is passed does not mean that I will comply with it.

Remember that the New Englanders' who fired on the English troops at Lexington and Concord still considered themselves to be British subjects at the time. They were not fighting a foreign power; that's why it was called a revolution.

the Green Nazis!

lol, you sound about as bad as me...

 

[dingeryote]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/12/obama-climate-czar-has-socialist-ties/

Carolyn Browner.
Appointed by Osama as our new "Climate Csar" in the name of change.

That change would be to eliminate anything that cannot be controlled by the Government using the reson of climate change.

This lovely blossoming flower of a woman, is an avowed socialist/communist that intends fully to assist her boss the kenyan, Barrack Hussein Obama in the complete destruction of wealth and standard of living in the United states, so that the wealth can be redistributed to the Poor globally, raising thier standard of living. It's only fair afterall.

She is the point of origination for many wonderfull ideas and pending legislation, including massive taxes on the petrolium industry, Coal industry, auto industry, and in general anyone who cuts a fart.

Her objective is not to improve air quality. Air quality is just the venue to exert control and generate revenues.
Air quality and the kickbacks from the green industry are just bonuses for her and her Boss.

She is afterall a sworn socialist, and trusted by obammy to always do the right thing.

She removed herself from the public list on the commie web page, but so did Comrade Pelosi and several others in D.C. and they do such a wonderfull job...

Let's all wish her well shall we?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[savageactor7]

That's one of the troubles in creating any government agency like the EPA...they never now when to quit. Any agency empowered to regulate will eventually over regulate... it's the nature of the beast.

 

[avalancher]

Allow me a quick moment to comment on some of the postings.

Woodbooga, you asked for a source, and sadly I cant supply an online reference to it, it was sent to me via snail mail by an old professor friend from Washington State University. He was privy to the report due to his ties with the University of Washington, and the original report was penned by Dr.Stenerson from the University of Washington.I will see about getting my wife to scan the document at her work and I will post it here as a jpeg or pdf format.Its important to note that this report was not intended to be released to the general public, but more of a interior memo type of thing.

Constrictor, you mentioned that you felt that this proposed action was similiar to many laws already axed by congress concerning gun laws.good thought except for several points.
Gun lobbiest are powerful, lots of resources available, and with a large majority of gun owners in this country they have a lot of backing.Even citizens who dont own a gun feel that our constituional rights would be violated by taking away our arms lends a great deal of support against any further gun laws.
Unfortuntely, we as wood burners do not have that same support.When you look at simple demographics, far less than half of Americans heat their homes with wood.Here in TN we have cold enough temps to warrant wood heat, but most people here do not use wood at least as a primary source of heat.OWB are almost non existent.
There is little doubt that this proposed action will take place, it only leaves me wondering "when" it will happen.

Will big government take your wood burner?Seriously doubt any federal or state agency is going to show up at your door.But, like many other states have already done, they will start with "banned burning days".those days will increase until it encompasses the entire burning season.

Its coming guys, its just a question of when.

 

[woodbooga]

Thanks, Avalancher for looking. I don't suppose you have a scanner or some other device that would allow you to reproduce and post the hard copy you have?

While I sincerely appreciate the heads up, I'm not going to get too worked up over this just yet.

If there is some merit to this, I will make sure my state's congerssional delegation is aware of my feelings.

The northern part of my state has an economy that is very much forest product based. There has been some hope that the emphasis on green jobs and alternative energy might help our North Country stop bleeding jobs.

 

[avalancher]

So how far are you going to be pushed?

It's below freezing and a burn ban day, are you going to light a fire?

You get fined for burning wood. Are you going to pay it?

The feds show up with a truck and haul your wood away. You get more, now they want your stove/boiler and all your firewood cutting equipment. What are you going to do?

Is it worth it to you to go to war, literally or legally, with the government?

At what point do you hire a lawyer?

At what point do you defend what's yours with a rifle?

Where are you going to draw your line in the sand?

Are you even going to draw a line in the sand, or will you just fold and plug into the grid like a well trained sheeple?

How much control are you going to permit the government to have over your life?

Sadly, there is little that we can do when our rights are taken from us.It is all well to say that we would defend what is ours with arms,but until ALL Americans decide that enough is enough then we must submit to government control for the simple reason we have let to much go by already without taking necessary steps to prevent government control.

As we speak, taxing on firearms and ammunition will put them beyond our reach. Our government has already realized a simple and effective way to make the people succumb to their desires.Just look at the issues right now.

The feds dont want AIG coporate exuctives getting a big bonus for driving their company into the ground.So a plan has been hatched to just TAX them to remove the benefit of the bonus.(by the way, I am NOT for these con-artists getting a bonus at tax payers expense)

The feds want everyone to quite smoking, so they up the taxes on tobacco.

The feds dont want you to have any weapons, so they are going to tax the ####ens out of ammo and firearms.

the list goes on and on.They may not come for your woodstove,but they have effective ways to make you stop burning wood if they should decide to put a stop to it.How about a 1000 percent tax on 2 stroke oil?Would you run your saws if it cost you 30 bucks each time you filled up the tank?

We have already let too much slide, and I fear that it is only going to get worse.

 

[avalancher]

Thanks, Avalancher for looking. I don't suppose you have a scanner or some other device that would allow you to reproduce and post the hard copy you have?

While I sincerely appreciate the heads up, I'm not going to get too worked up over this just yet.

If there is some merit to this, I will make sure my state's congerssional delegation is aware of my feelings.

The northern part of my state has an economy that is very much forest product based. There has been some hope that the emphasis on green jobs and alternative energy might help our North Country stop bleeding jobs.

I dont have a scanner, the old one bit the dust and since I never use the thing I havent bought a new one.But what I will do is have my wife take it into work and use one there, and post the report here.
I think that is a good idea, dont get to worked up about this yet, but it does leave some food for thought, as well as a subject to keep an eye on.
It personally alarms me because it touches on several subjects that are rather dear to me.
I grew up in big timber country, Southwest Washington as a boy.Timber was big business, and Weyhauser ruled the world.I spent a great deal of time in the lumber "camps" as a boy earning my meager wages.
Then came the spotted owl nonsense. Within two years the industry was wiped out because of a bird, bumber stickers read "spotted owl tastes like chicken", and thousands were without work.Although Weyhauser had a lot of clout with lobbyist, they had no muscle when it came to the enviromental wackos.The industry never did revive in that area.

The second issue that I view from a personal point was facing big government head on.Without going into details, I decided to fight the government on an issue and spent not only mine and my parents life savings, but a great deal of my time behind bars because of it.In the end, I finally won out and my record cleared but it left me with a very clear view of what happens when you buck the government and they decide to push the issue.It has left me to being a very careful and calculating guy when it comes to dealing with the government.

 

[Dalmatian90]

E-mail your congressmen; when you find links for proposals by agencies, e-mail your comments.

Individual emails may not matter, they can be very simple ("I oppose ______.")

But volume matters. They do listen.

NAIS (google it) has been significantly delayed/watered down from original proposals due to the amount of push-back from small / home farmers. That war isn't won yet, but it's not as onerous as it could have been.

The Democrats don't fear Rush Limbaugh because he's a bloviating windbag. They fear him because he's a bloviating windbag whose jammed the phone system at the Capitol twice -- you had the "Ports Deal" and then the complete phone log jam he largely created of the Immigration Bill in June '07.

Legislators do listen -- but it has to be persistent and loud.

 

[woodbooga]

E-mail your congressmen; when you find links for proposals by agencies, e-mail your comments.

Individual emails may not matter, they can be very simple ("I oppose ______.")

But volume matters. They do listen.

NAIS (google it) has been significantly delayed/watered down from original proposals due to the amount of push-back from small / home farmers. That war isn't won yet, but it's not as onerous as it could have been.

The Democrats don't fear Rush Limbaugh because he's a bloviating windbag. They fear him because he's a bloviating windbag whose jammed the phone system at the Capitol twice -- you had the "Ports Deal" and then the complete phone log jam he largely created of the Immigration Bill in June '07.

Legislators do listen -- but it has to be persistent and loud.

E-mails carry the least weight. Staffers and congressmen are well aware of how easy it is to cut, paste, and click send.

A phone call carries a bit more.

A typed or handwritten letter is taken the most seriously because of the investment of time.

That said, I'm planning on keeping my powder dry until I get some actual substance.

 

[danrclem]

The time to worry about the government taking one of your freedoms away is before the government thinks of it.

I hear a lot of people say that the government can't do this and the government can't do that. We won't stand for this and we won't stand for that. If you have very many years of age on you it is easy to look in the past and see how the government has already changed our lives. Most of it changed slowly but the speed of their change is escalating.

Look at the way government has changed other countries. You may think that our citizens are different from the people in those other countries and to a degree you probably would be right. The ones of us that are different are diminishing rapidly. How long will it be before there are not enough of us to stand up against them?

There was a tea party in Cincinnati last weekend and had I known about it before it happened I would have gone. Defend your rights and be vocal about it.

 

[thejdman04]

They are killing everything from wood buring to construction everything. I heard california by something like 2015 wont allow trucks older then 2010 to be allowed in the state semis that is. Requiring construction equipment to have dpf's on them. Many truck manufactures are coming out with catalist reduction systems, using urea to reduce emissions. New trucks will be out in not real long and so far no urea supply and distribution is set up. Real wonderful emission ideas and goverment ideas. We have to follow all of these emission guidelines but what about brazil, china mexico etc.

 

[avalancher]

They are killing everything from wood buring to construction everything. I heard california by something like 2015 wont allow trucks older then 2010 to be allowed in the state semis that is. Requiring construction equipment to have dpf's on them. Many truck manufactures are coming out with catalist reduction systems, using urea to reduce emissions. New trucks will be out in not real long and so far no urea supply and distribution is set up. Real wonderful emission ideas and goverment ideas. We have to follow all of these emission guidelines but what about brazil, china mexico etc.

speaking of mexico and trucking.....
It really chaps my hide that the United States allows trucks from Mexico now into the states thanks to the stinkin Fair Trade Agreement that Bush put into place.Trucks from Mexico dont have to conform to the same DOT requirements for safety, and most of them are some real pieces of ####t.I have worked on a number of them on road calls, and you would be astounded at the shape most of them are in.An American truck would have been red flagged at the first weigh scale with some of the violations I have seen.Same with emissions standards.There arent any when it comes to trucks from outside the states.Thankfully Canada has just as a strict set of rules when it comes to safety.

 

[rx7145]

The Democrats don't fear Rush Limbaugh because he's a bloviating windbag. They fear him because he's a bloviating windbag whose jammed the phone system at the Capitol twice -- you had the "Ports Deal" and then the complete phone log jam he largely created of the Immigration Bill in June '07.

Rush was for the "ports deal" BTW.

Other than that good points.

 

[Scootermsp]

Wrong

speaking of mexico and trucking.....
It really chaps my hide that the United States allows trucks from Mexico now into the states thanks to the stinkin Fair Trade Agreement that Bush put into place.Trucks from Mexico dont have to conform to the same DOT requirements for safety, and most of them are some real pieces of ####t.I have worked on a number of them on road calls, and you would be astounded at the shape most of them are in.An American truck would have been red flagged at the first weigh scale with some of the violations I have seen.Same with emissions standards.There arent any when it comes to trucks from outside the states.Thankfully Canada has just as a strict set of rules when it comes to safety.

Actually they DO need to conform to the same requirements. In fact the inspection process for the Mexican carriers in the pilot program is much more strict than for US and Canadian carriers. Each truck/trailer entering the US requires a current CVSA decal (every 3 months). This shows the truck and trailer have passed a Level I North American Standard inspection. Also the drivers need to be fluent in English, if not they are placed out of service. These Level I inspections are done here MOST of the time. There is nothing to prevent another inspection from being done even with this current decal. As far as hours of service regulations go, the drivers must comply with US regs (11/14/60/70 hr rules for property carrying). I was quite skeptical at first but it's not all bad. The rules of cabotage apply to Mexican and Canadian carriers alike. If either is found doing cabotage (point-to-point move domestically by a foreign carrier) they are violating the scope of their authority and put out of service, a second infraction results in revocation of authority to operate in the USA.