Bailey's Chain Breaker and Spinner

[Grande Dog]

Howdy All,
If your having issues with the the link binding before the rivet is set, 90+% of the time it's because the drive link was damaged when breaking the chain. The smaller the chain, the easier it is to bend or burr the drive link. The smaller the chain the easier it breaks, so the tendency is to push the rivet out with 1 stroke. No matter what size the chain is, it's better to break it in a couple steps. Push the first rivet about 1/2 way out, and then do the same on the second rivet, then push the first rivet the rest of the way out, and then the same for the second. The more the breaker anvil gets worn the easier it is to damage the drive link. The burrs are the worse because even if you have a good eye, they're very hard to see. The center shoulders on the rivets are very accurate in thickness, so even very small burrs can cause the link to bind before the rivet is completely set. It also doesn't take much of a bend to end up in the same boat.
The little wings on the spinner anvil help keep the tie straps pushed in while the rivet gets spun. When the rivet is spun sufficiently, the wings will actually bind on the tie strap and start trying to spin the chain instead of just the rivet. If the tie strap binds on the rivet while your spinning, it's because your applying more pressure than the spinning action can relieve. This causes the rivet to crush and swell before the tie strap has seated against the center rivet shoulder. This happens alot with someone who cranks the take up handle a half turn, then spins, then cranks another half turn, and spins some more. The idea is to keep the spinner anvil moving as pressure is applied by the take up handle. Another visual that you might be applying pressure to quickly is that rivet will have little cracks on the radial edge of mushroomed part of the rivet.
Regards
Gregg

 

[Philbert]

Thank you GD!

(Somebody rep this guy for this post - he is still in my 'rep holding pattern')!

Philbert

 

[MCW]

Actually, you posted it earlier in this thread (post #16)!

Hah hah so I have! Pays to check the whole post before inserting pictures.....again.....

Thank you GD!

(Somebody rep this guy for this post - he is still in my 'rep holding pattern')!

Philbert

Yeah a very good point and true! It's only just occurred to me that bent DL's is exactly what the problem would be most of the time with 3/8"LP.

The cracked rivet heads vary too depending on the manufacturer of the presets. I like Windsor chain but their presets suck for this (and other reasons). I use Carlton presets whenever I can and they work really well.

 

[heimannm]

Thanks for the tip Gregg, always helps to have someone who knows join in.

We all learn some things by trial and error, but as many know it can be hard at times to know which is which!

Mark

 

[Philbert]

I still need to mount my spinner and breaker to a pretty board, like Mark did in Post #6.

What I did discover, by way of a happy accident in a slightly cluttered shop, is that a really strong magnet placed under the plastic anvil block (holds the spinner anvils not being used) really helps to keep them from falling out, and all over the place.

I think that I will counter sink one underneath this block when I mount it on a board.

Philbert

 

[Cantdog]

I still need to mount my spinner and breaker to a pretty board, like Mark did in Post #6.

What I did discover, by way of a happy accident in a slightly cluttered shop, is that a really strong magnet placed under the plastic anvil block (holds the spinner anvils not being used) really helps to keep them from falling out, and all over the place.

I think that I will counter sink one underneath this block when I mount it on a board.

Philbert

Now that sounds like a really good idea....mine drifts all around too!! Thanks!!!!

 

[Philbert]

Thread Bump / Progress Report

Got a deal on some lightly used chains that needed to be re-sized, and had a neighbor that needed a loop cut down, so I had a chance to use the spinner and breaker again. Practice does help.

Re-reading through the posts in this thread has been helpful with these recent chains, especially Mark's comments (Post #21) on using the position of the spinner pressure handle to estimate if the rivet is fully spun, and Gregg's comments (Post #41) on spinning 3/8 low profile chain.

I tried using a dab of wheel bearing grease on the preset, but that was just a mess, so I used a light drizzle of 3-In-One oil which worked well (and made a different kind of mess). Nice looking rivet heads though!

With this loop of 3/8 LP (Oregon 91VG) I had trouble getting the chain tight enough even though the rivets appeared to be well spun and shaped. I flipped the chain over in the spinner and spun the other side of the rivet with just a little pressure, and that tightened things up quickly.

Philbert

 

[heimannm]

Some have commented that it helps to take the "wings" on the spinner down a bit for 3/8 LP and .325 chain, then the rivet will tighten up properly before you start grinding into the side of the tie straps.

Mark

 

[Philbert]

Scrounging Tie Straps

Some posts in other threads discussed whether or not it is OK to re-use presets and tie straps. The rivets on the presets that I have punched out look pretty messed up.

But the tie straps should not be as bad, especially if the chain is fairly new. Even though these are fairly inexpensive I tried to salvage the part of the preset that is a tie strap, to see if I could, if I needed one. My first attempts to drive the remaining rivets out with the breaker anvil really bent up the tie straps.

I tried using the jaws of a Crescent wrench as an adjustable anvil, but that did not work as well as I hoped. I thought about drilling holes in a block of wood or metal, at the same spacing as the preset rivets, to act as a special anvil for this quest.

Finally, I realized that each chain comes with it's own 'anvil adaptor', with pre-drilled holes of the right diameter for the rivets - the drive links! Using a spare drive link as a support, and the narrowest slot on the breaker anvil, I was able to fully support the tie strap and drive out the rivets with the chain breaker.

The photo below shows the breaker anvil, 'before' (used) preset, drive link, 'after' (salvaged) tie straps - front and back, and some ugly rivets that I would prefer to not try and re-use.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Bailey's Woodland Pro Spinner & Breaker Discontinued (EDIT: They are back!!!)

I happened to notice in the current Bailey's catalog (2012) that their familiar spinner and breaker set came with slightly different accessories. AND they had a slightly different appearance (shiny metal parts instead of black finish). AND they were now called 'Precision Tooling' instead of WoodlandPro. So, I asked, and got this response.

Sorry to say that the whole line of the WoodlandPro Breaker and Spinners have been discontinued as well as their accessories and replacement parts.

The only real issue here is the availability of replacement parts if punches break or spinner anvils wear out, etc. I have a message into Grande Dog and will post here when I find out.

Philbert

EDIT: These spinners/breakers and parts are back: check current catalog/webpage for information.

 

[Philbert]

Grande Dogs response can be found here:

< http://www.arboristsite.com/baileys/196182.htm#post3544767 >

The factory supply has dried up, . . . I really haven't had a chance to check if any of the parts cross fit other versions.

They still have some parts in stock, so just ordered a few spare punches, just-in-case.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Screaming Spinner

Was re-sizing a bunch of loops tonight, and things were going really well. Then, suddenly, the spinner started S-C-R-E-A-M-I-N-G!!. Like a microscopic cat had got it's tail caught somewhere.

I had put a dab of grease on each rivet, so that was not it. Checked the spinner anvil and it looked OK - I mean, it was pretty smooth. Not sure what a worn anvil would look like. Tried putting a few drops of oil into the oil hole at the top of the spinner. Nothing helped, and the heads were barely formed. I had only run maybe 50 pre-sets/100 rivets or so through this spinner, so I was hoping that it was not toast.

Took it apart and repacked the thrust bearing with grease. Re-assembled it and it was fine. Smooth, round, rivet heads again.

I was surprised because I had taken it apart and greased it when it was new. Anyway, if something similar happens to you . . .

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Cleaned some things up a bit

EDIT: rebuilt photos after loss due to hacker - may be slightly different photos.

Cleaned up the temporary bases I had made for my spinner / breaker set when I first got them.
I did not want them permanently mounted to a bench, per the instructions, because I have a small shop and don't have the dedicated space. I like heimannm's board (post # 6), but wanted something that would take up a little less space when stored.

These bases 'nest' for storage in a small area or box.



They can be clamped to a workbench, or held in my woodworking vise with removable cleats.





I recessed rare-earth magnets into the bases to keep the anvils, punches, etc. from falling off. I also epoxied a round ball onto the end of the breaker handle to make it more comfortable to use.



I am not sure if this model is available again from Bailey's, but I would do something similar with another brand as well.

Philbert

(P.S. - my shop is not a neat as Mark's, so I had to do the dramatic blue curtain thing!)

 

[Philbert]

Anvils

I posted these before (somewhere) but am trying to replace lost photos in some threads. Might as well add them back here.

Philbert

The standard, slotted anvil that came with the Bailey's set worked fine. Heimannm pointed out that it works better if you eyeball it's position under the punch instead of trying to use the locating key that comes with the set, to reduce the risk of breaking punches.



This adjustable anvil comes with the Oregon punch, or can be purchased separately. It gives a more secure grip, especially with worn tie straps.



An attempt to improvise an adjustable anvil with some square nuts, next to the commercially available one. It worked OK - best if you can find nuts that are hardened more than standard hardware grade. Good improvised solution, if needed.



'Inside story' on the adjustable anvil.

 

[MCW]

I can honestly say that I've never broken a punch. The old Mk I eyeball seems to do a good job.
I have worn one out though.

 

[LegDeLimber]

If you take Philberts homebrand square nut anvil and drop the hex nut off for a moment then spread the 2 square nuts as far as the threads will allow , don't hang the nut off the end though just go to the end flush.
Now the reason for this is a nice wide base to lightly pull them across a flat file a few strokes and you should be rewarded with some nice crisp corners
on the square nuts now to lay the chain into.

I'll throw in a few frames of the Harbor Freight spinner/breaker where I decided I wanted a bit different spinner tip configuration than it came with.
It had that interesting looking notched spinner side-NOT- the stationary side shape.
I just sort of figured that I'd like a nice dimpled shape
to better accomplish the desired rivet head story ending.
Simply wrapped a rag around the old trusty B&D and gently squeezed it in the bench vice
next set the drill trigger to run then took a couple of mins with one of our
more favorite tools here and got the dimple I wanted.
Just don't get heavy handed and forget to check your progress as you go
with an actual *finished* rivet head for proper fit.

 

[Philbert]

Link to another thread on spinning rivets, including a few tips:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/spinning-chain-fess-up.170216/

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Well, I eventually tried grinding down the small 'ears' a bit on the spinning anvil, per MCW's suggestion (waaaaay back in post #16) for 3/8 low profile chain. Seemed to work OK. However, I now seem to have trouble shaping the heads on .325 chain that use the same anvil. Wasted a few pre-sets before I realized what was going on.

Not complaining. But I think that I will order a second spinning anvil, and keep one for 3/8 low pro and one for .325 pre-sets.

My spinning anvils are flat with the ears; the one MCW shows is 'v'-shaped with ears. The dished profile that LegDeLimber shows above is also interesting. This may make a difference as well.

Philbert

 

[LegDeLimber]

Here are a few quick & dirty shots ( I didn't try to fix the lighting ).
These are the first two chains off of my Harbor Freight break & mend rig.
Yeah I'm a bit rusty at it, Too many years gone by.

The first pic shows where I hit the cutter as I was dressing off the factory rivets.
That's the trouble of my "monocular diplopia" it makes small detail work a real pain.
I dress off the bulk of the rivet heads to take a lot of the load off of the breaker point
and mostly to keep from bending the chain parts.
Especially when you're trying to save & reuse a cutter.

Edit: these are .325/.050 oregon chains.

the 4th & 5th are of a used chain I shortened
The 2nd & 3rd are of a new chain that I wanted a cutter instead of the skipped one
that the dealer made up.
That situation was what led me to finally just go buy the HF tool and just do it myself.
-
Philbert, If you're curious about the spinner tips, just swap ends on them and make the dimple.
That's all I did. You'll probably want to look at the original ends of the tips
and maybe do a bit corner dressing so as to get a nice solid seating inside of the spindles.

edit: to change photo references and bit of spelling.

 

[Philbert]

Those look pretty good!

If you're curious about the spinner tips, just swap ends on them and make the dimple.

Anvils for the Bailey's spinner are not reversable.

Philbert