Be careful what you climb!!!

[SINGLE-JACK]

AIN'T NOTHIN' LIKE LUCK!

Here I am at 60ft, "fat, dumb & happy" ... OK! skinny, DUMB & happy:

Here's what the inside looked like:

The tree looked ok;
- well leaved in the summer,
- good root swell and structure,
- good flex & sway in the wind,
- sounded solid as far as I could reach from ground.
At about 30 ft there was this little squirrel hole:

The tree was hollow for about 15-20ft!!!

I had to talk the HO into letting me take it down because it leaned directly over the ridge of his house - could have taken the entire house. After he saw the condition of the stem, he was PO'd because I didn't talk him into it earlier!

Then, he was PO'd because I was up in it! Actually, there was no other way - no access for a bucket or crane and no clear way to drop the tree whole. I used a speedline for the top 35ft and dropped the remaining 50ft of clean spar safely.

Anyway ... good lesson learned ... I hope everyone takes seriously:
NEXT TIME, YOU BET, I'LL SOUND OUT THE STEM ALL THE WAY UP!!!

Had I known, I would have planned the entire job differently. Still ...
AIN'T NOTHIN' LIKE LUCK!

 

[lone wolf]

carefull

You had to feel that tree moving around more than usual I
I would think.

 

[treesquirrel]

Man thats spooky. Glad you came out on top!

 

[lego1970]

This is a tree I did the other week. I was told that a tree blew over on another tree and they needed it removed. It's hard to tell in the pics but the top of the tree was tangled in pretty good with the other tree with a lot of widow makers so I had to climb the other tree to slowly piece the top out before it fell over on it's own. The tree it was leaning into was also leaning. What they failed to tell me is that they had already made a bunch of cuts into it which made it completely untrustworthy to either climb up on it, or climb underneath it. Luckily I was able to use the big shot to place my rope on the other tree away from the drop zone if it did fall while I was climbing. I don't have the pic they gave me but it didn't show, nor did they tell me about the cuts they made and I had already promised them that I would take it down for X amount of bucks. I didn't loose money on the deal or nothing like that but it made the job a lot harder since they cut into it so much. Sorry if the pics don't post and they are kinda blurry.

 

[blewgrass]

Had a similar situation in a birch once. Thought it was sound and climbed to take a few branches out, when I went to drop the trunk my face cut ran into dust when it hit the heartwood. I think it's more dangerous to have a tree heart-rotted when you're felling it vs. when you're climbing it. The sapwood plenty strong usually, but when there's no heart, your hinge is compromised.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Looks like another day in the office.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I'm glad you lived, however it's better that the sapwood was soild vs. the heart. The sap wood has most strength, in conifers anyway.

Had a similar situation in a birch once. Thought it was sound and climbed to take a few branches out, when I went to drop the trunk my face cut ran into dust when it hit the heartwood. I think it's more dangerous to have a tree heart-rotted when you're felling it vs. when you're climbing it. The sapwood plenty strong usually, but when there's no heart, your hinge is compromised.

:agree2:
Yeah, that's why they can use pipe for fence post. Mechanically, most of the strength is in the outer diameters. The tree seemed to sway normally. Seemed like a normal TD 'til the tree was bucked. Bothered the HO more than me - still, it was a little "spooky" .

BTW, very good point about heart wood and hinge!!!

Anyway, this whole thread is intended as a "heads-up!" Be extra careful inspecting the tree you're climbing!!!

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Yeah, that's why they can use pipe for fence post. Mechanically, most of the strength is in the outer diameters.

You are right kimosabi!!!


:monkey: man

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Even with the rams-horn cracks that tree was perfectly sound in the trunk. Many red oak will have that, and you can have ~20% wall thickness on with an uncompromised cylinder.

I've climbed basswood with stems like that.

Like the other guy said, just another day.

That said, you should have noticed a different sound when you were stomping up it. and thumping is something we should do on any tree.

If you look at the abnormal diameter growth on the stem, you can see where the tree is putting more xylem on to compensate for strength loss. As Mattheck says, the trees will talk to you if you know how to listen. Get "the body language of trees" A must read for any big tree climber.

Not that that was a very big tree

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

...
Even with the rams-horn cracks that tree was perfectly sound in the trunk. Many red oak will have that, and you can have ~20% wall thickness on with an uncompromised cylinder.
...
Like the other guy said, just another day.

That said, you should have noticed a different sound when you were stomping up it. and thumping is something we should do on any tree.
...

True enough, the tree was sound enough (maybe not perfectly) for the TD to go just as planned.

HOWEVER, IT'S NOT "just another day" for some people. Hopefully, some might actually benefit from these pix.

The point here is, there was a hidden problem that went undetected because sometimes just "thumping" the butt, even up 8ft ain't enough. (see OP)

Gaffing ("stomping") the stem didn't reveal the hollow, either.

"Thumping" the stem while climbing might eliminate a trip home to change your shorts ... or worse ...

 

[Rftreeman]

That's really nothing to be concerned about but I see your point....

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

That's really nothing to be concerned about but I see your point....

:agree2:
Thanks for the encouragement ... not just for me but those that haven't see this before.

The message here, as JPS wisely advises: "the trees will talk to you if you know how to listen. Get "'The Body Language of Trees.'" (Claus Mattheck and Helge Breloer) A must read for any big tree climber."

Actually, as a mentioned in the OP, the HO was more worried than I was. What bothered me the most was sawing through the mounds of squirrel #### while bucking that tree, LOL.

I'd rep you both ... if AS would let me.

 

[Treetom]

: What bothered me the most was sawing through the mounds of squirrel #### while bucking that tree, LOL.

Thanks for posting, singlejack. I've run into a bit of squirrel stuff myself, actually cutting through a couple squirrels once. Sometimes a hollow tree can still be quite strong as long as it's a continuous tubular structure, which seemed to be the case here. The weakest point still had quite a bit of meat left. A rarity. Your post may save a life.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

: What bothered me the most was sawing through the mounds of squirrel #### while bucking that tree, LOL.

Thanks for posting, singlejack. I've run into a bit of squirrel stuff myself, actually cutting through a couple squirrels once.

I've found a few in the cleanup that were frozen solid, and sawn from nose to tail. These had been dropped at the end of day for cleanup the next work day and the critters were trapped with their holes on the dirt side of the logs. Two or three times. One time, working for Greg Good, on a pig-nut removal we had colony opf flying squirrels evacuate their condo. I counted 21, and know i missed some of them.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Chunking down a tree that hollow wouldn't be as concerning to me as dropping a big top out of it. Cutting a wedge to drop the top 30 ft. or so and discovering that it is as hollow as it is would definitely expose the climber to increased risk.

GOOD POINT! I did have a sense the tree was in trouble. That's I why urged to HO to take it down. But, I had no idea it had a hollow that extensive. So, I pieced out the top in small bits to avoid impact to the stem.

I setup a speedline 70 degrees off the lean to avoid the house, impossible terrain and other trees. As stated in the OP, there was no access for a bucket or crane. The speedline is 250 ft of 1/4" steel cable (100 ft to a another anchor tree, 150 ft to LZ) with a snatch block and haulback. The stem was also anchored opposite the lean with 5/8 steel cable holding line. Seems excessive, but as it turned out ... it pays to be cautious.

 

[tree MDS]

SJ, personally I think some of these guys are minimizing the risk involved with that tree. I survived a good ten years on my own climbing whatever came my way (unless obviously way too dead) before I got my bucket. I'll tell you I was freaked about many trees - its what keeps us alive! tough talk on a pc is one thing but lets keep it real here. You cant tell me heartwood doesnt add a significant amount of strength to a tree.

I wouldnt be putting the unnatural forces that a speedline does on that tree though. But I'm really not a speedline guy so...

 

[treemandan]

Looks like another day in the office.

That's the truth.

But I was in a dead beech today. dull spurs you know how it can be. Careful when working the spar to keep my ropes high and tight, I slipped in the middle of a cut, really didn't go anywhere and was fine. Mis-gaff.
Thing was harder than a rock and spikes dull, to get penatration with the spurs was work it self. When I was in the tops ( 8 inch dia) it was wet so I wound the lanyard around twice .

Hell on my way up at first I almost slid down the thing but was caught by using two tie ins while I made the intial ascent. These things happen cause its not like it is strightforeward, There are a lot of little things in the way, little branches you have to stop and remove, to navigate around something ( re-belay) means you probably have to unclip two systems, one would be holding you as you did the other.
That truly is the job though. Making sure you are pretty much tied in. Do we climb the tree or do we climb the ropes? Without the ropes we would have to stay on the ground and comment while we watched so doofus ona really big ladder do it.

 

[tree MDS]

That's the truth.

But I was in a dead beech today. dull spurs you know how it can be. Careful when working the spar to keep my ropes high and tight, I slipped in the middle of a cut, really didn't go anywhere and was fine. Mis-gaff.
Thing was harder than a rock and spikes dull, to get penatration with the spurs was work it self. When I was in the tops ( 8 inch dia) it was wet so I wound the lanyard around twice .

Hell on my way up at first I almost slid down the thing but was caught by using two tie ins while I made the intial ascent. These things happen cause its not like it is strightforeward, There are a lot of little things in the way, little branches you have to stop and remove, to navigate around something ( re-belay) means you probably have to unclip two systems, one would be holding you as you did the other.
That truly is the job though. Making sure you are pretty much tied in. Do we climb the tree or do we climb the ropes? Without the ropes we would have to stay on the ground and comment while we watched so doofus ona really big ladder do it.

You aint figured out how to sharpen them spikes yet dano??

 

[ropensaddle]

Looks like another day in the office.

Yup if I had 5 dollars for every tree I climbed looking like that or worse I could retire. Not that it does not make you think. I was sure glad to have not climbed this red oak, even though; I have climbed some like it in my earlier days.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Yup if I had 5 dollars for every tree I climbed looking like that or worse I could retire.

5 bucks?, #### gimme a nickel. lol

Not to marginalize the threat, ya gotta be gentle and smooth in those trees and it sure helps to know what you're dealing with before you go to town up there so sounding away with a mallet is some good advice.