Beating wedges vs. Chainsaw splitting - tough rounds???

[Al Smith]

I ... I can split a Face cord fast than most splitters, but can't do it near as long or near as many. ,


Dude

Even at my age I can out split a splitter...for about 10 minutes.

It's kind of like the mini bike I had when I was 14.The kids on the ten speed bikes could out run it but they couldn't outlast it.

 

[Sprig]

Had several big (20-30") knarly rounds of arbutus (madrona) given to me recently, my 8lb customized maul just bounces and the rounds just laugh at me, sheesh, might as well be cutting fiberglass trying to saw it, hm, notch and sledge an' wedge me thinks ta shatter them, no fancy-prancy girly splitters around here fer this (read 'noone wants to break their splitter on this junk' lol), it will fit in me stove eventually, everything does............

*sigh*



Serge

 

[leon]

firewood the easy way

Hello all,
I am still pretty new to the firewood game.
I do have about 15+ cords under my belt though.

I tried a wedge and sledge on some knotty stuff one day, and it sucked and seems dangerous.

My routine has become:
split everything I can with the splitting axe
the rounds that are too tough get thrown aside
then I rip them down the middle with the saw when I'm done, and they can usually be split from that point with the axe.

Any reason some people want to beat the crap out of a wedge?

Granted it doesn't make a mess like the saw does.

Have you thought about using ripping chain? It works very well, you just can not be stupid about saw safety as ripping chain has no rakers and will buck
more than a conventional chain.

:greenchainsaw:

 

[computeruser]

Have you thought about using ripping chain? It works very well, you just can not be stupid about saw safety as ripping chain has no rakers and will buck more than a conventional chain.

Not true - it does have rakers. And it affords no advantage over regular cutter profiles when ripping blocks for firewood.

 

[leon]

a sawing we will go.

Not true - it does have rakers. And it affords no advantage over regular cutter profiles when ripping blocks for firewood.

I can tell you the ripping chain I bought from cutters choice for my stihl 025 with a sixteen inch bar has two rippng links and no rakers for abundant noodles.

 

[Moddoo]

Nice discussion going on here

Thanks for the advice on chains, but I do not have any trouble ripping rounds in half.
I am using a 20" bar on my ms290 with woodsman pro chains.
They seem to work pretty well for everything.
The saw just has a muffler mod and tuned with a tach.
It's runs pretty good, dispite all the haters I have heard talk about them.

I have been using the Fiscars 4# axe lately. It is light and fast with the short handle. It's also nice having a sharp tool when you need to do a bit of trimming.
I would like to try the 6.5# version, but haven't seen it in a store yet.

 

[Al Smith]

I can tell you the ripping chain I bought from cutters choice for my stihl 025 with a sixteen inch bar has two rippng links and no rakers for abundant noodles.

Oh that little saw will rip,just won't break any speed records.

A regular good old chisel chain will cut circles around a ripping chain,just not as smooth.A little trick,attack the wood at about 45 degrees instead of cross grain or with the grain.It will still pull "noodles" but not as bad as with the grain and if done correctly they won't jam up the saw.It's a lot faster that going directly cross grain.

 

[Moddoo]

LOL
I missed your post grandpatractor.
I was just, um, getting used to the power!
The second run was a bit better.

Looking forward to a rematch.

 

[ghitch75]

394xp,20"bar,skip round chisel no beatin' your brains out= firewood

 

[starter]

I use'm both dude. The maul on the right is mine, the one on the left is the one I altered for the wifey. I've had mine since I was about 16 yrs old. There is NO ONE out there that can split EVERY block. It's almost as fast to just cut'em with the saw... I can split a Face cord fast than most splitters, but can't do it near as long or near as many. I still enjoy the exercise. A wood splitter is a significant investment unless your going to be splitting hundreds of cords every year. I normally cut/split in the neighborhood of 60+ face cord, 20 full cord. With this amount, I'd never get back and ROI for spending the money to buy it... Good luck guy.


Dude

Did you "dead blow" the maul on the left? Hmmm, an interesting idea whether you did or didn't.

 

[rxe]

Ripping firewood? I'm sure I've done that before.....

Being serious, I was only ripping this to prove to a friend that we might want to mill this oak rather than chop it up for firewood. The pieces at the back are 3ft diameter.

My rule for splitting vs. ripping? I'll try and hit anything a few times, but if it is too hard, I'll put it to one side and do it later with the saw. I don't see the point in killing yourself for one gnarly round when you could have split 20 normal ones in that time.

 

[wood4heat]

My rule for splitting vs. ripping? I'll try and hit anything a few times, but if it is too hard, I'll put it to one side and do it later with the saw. I don't see the point in killing yourself for one gnarly round when you could have split 20 normal ones in that time.

Thats only because you dont recognize it for the personal challenge that it is. No way I'm letting some uppity piece of firewood show me who's boss! AARGHH AARGHH AARGHH!!! (Tim the tool man grunt)

Oh and by the way thats a nice looking piece of oak ya got there!

 

[ryno]

There is a lot of talk about the weight of the splitter going on here. Remember 8 th grade sience class F=MA. If i swing the 5#'er twice as fast a a 10#'er they apply the same force.

I use a 5# splitting axe. It has a pretty agressive flare on it. When splitting smaller stuff it will send pieces flying apart (i have a dent in my truck that was at least 20 feet away). I also have a 10# that i haven't used in a few years after finding how well the lighter one works. I find with the 5# axe i am more accurate and i don't get tired as fast. That just me. A friend of mine that is part gorilla (6'5" and 300lbs) likes to us a 12# maul. When we split wood together we get the same amount done.

 

[habanero]

There is a lot of talk about the weight of the splitter going on here. Remember 8 th grade sience class F=MA. If i swing the 5#'er twice as fast a a 10#'er they apply the same force...

This was discussed ad nauseum a year ago about this time, but I'll reply anyway.

If you want to get even more technical, kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity, so swinging twice as fast at an even mass gives you 4 times the energy.

But, that being said, there is much more at play here than weight and swing speed. I have no scientific proof to back me up, yet, but I feel like maul shape plays an important role here as well. Monster mauls are basically triangular in shape versus the thin profile of an axe or 6 lb maul. I feel that at impact, the blunter shape works to spread the fibers of the wood further apart, rather than just "sliding between fibers" like an axe does. This serves to better break the overall structure of the wood.

Going back to swing speed, I'm also not convinced you can always use the argument that a person can swing half the weight twice as fast. I have an old 6 lb maul at home and swinging first it, then the 13 lb Monster, I'm almost certain I can't swing that 6 pounder twice as fast. Further, when I'm trying to swing it so fast, my accuracy goes down the toilet and accuracy is probably one of the most fundamental skills of effectively using a maul.

I'm not sure it's possible to ever completely answer this question. I have thought about trying to build some kind of test rig, as I have 6 and 8 lb maul heads laying around at home, but I don't know that you can ever account for all the variables. I think it boils down to a matter of personal preference. It's not always possible, but it's best for someone to try out a few different mauls on the wood they're usually going to be splitting and see what works best for them.

 

[Chavez7]

I think it boils down to a matter of personal preference. It's not always possible, but it's best for someone to try out a few different mauls on the wood they're usually going to be splitting and see what works best for them.

The physics majors can argue this point at length. Bottom line, it may not be a matter of twice the speed or twice the force so much as one can give a more efficient and effective swing with one maul over another maul.

 

[Al Smith]

Well generally speaking any axe swinger or maul pounder or wedge expert also in time becomes rather proficiant in replacing handles.The exception being the old Sotz monster maul with a steel handle.Miss with that one and you will vibrate for a week.

 

[starter]

The physics majors can argue this point at length. Bottom line, it may not be a matter of twice the speed or twice the force so much as one can give a more efficient and effective swing with one maul over another maul.

This was discussed ad nauseum a year ago about this time, but I'll reply anyway.

If you want to get even more technical, kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity, so swinging twice as fast at an even mass gives you 4 times the energy.

But, that being said, there is much more at play here than weight and swing speed. I have no scientific proof to back me up, yet, but I feel like maul shape plays an important role here as well. Monster mauls are basically triangular in shape versus the thin profile of an axe or 6 lb maul. I feel that at impact, the blunter shape works to spread the fibers of the wood further apart, rather than just "sliding between fibers" like an axe does. This serves to better break the overall structure of the wood.

Going back to swing speed, I'm also not convinced you can always use the argument that a person can swing half the weight twice as fast. I have an old 6 lb maul at home and swinging first it, then the 13 lb Monster, I'm almost certain I can't swing that 6 pounder twice as fast. Further, when I'm trying to swing it so fast, my accuracy goes down the toilet and accuracy is probably one of the most fundamental skills of effectively using a maul.

I'm not sure it's possible to ever completely answer this question. I have thought about trying to build some kind of test rig, as I have 6 and 8 lb maul heads laying around at home, but I don't know that you can ever account for all the variables. I think it boils down to a matter of personal preference. It's not always possible, but it's best for someone to try out a few different mauls on the wood they're usually going to be splitting and see what works best for them.

There is probably a component of both of your points in the mix but given the same user with the same technique and ablilities is swinging the instrument, the nod goes to the science. The maul shape and its momentum on impact would far beat that of a standard axe. As ryno said though, for smaller stuff, of course the axe.

I prefer the axe but the maul has its place. Too many times I've been too lazy to get the maul and end up pulling out the wedge to free the axe, then beating the he** out of that chunk with the wedge (still too "lazy" or "crazy" to get the maul) until its six pieces scream for the wood stove to end their misery (impact damaged elbows could be another thread)

 

[Sodboa]

Work

You are not applying force to the round you are trying to do work. Work is force over a distance and is equal to 1/2 * Mass * Velocity * Velocity.

Mass is generally a small number say 5 or 8 or even 16. Velocity is a big number say 30 or 60.
If you swing a 16 pound maul at 30 ft/s you can do 7,200 FtLbs of work.
If you swing a 8 pound maul twice as fast you can do 14,400 FtLbs of work (twice as much)
If you can only swing it 50% faster you will do 8100 FtLbs of work, pehaps not enough difference to worry about (12%).

As far as shape you have to consider friction. Friction pushes back against the maul head. Remember work is Force * Distance: If you have too much friction you will apply a lot of force, but will not do it for very far and the whole point is to get through the round or at least part way through.

One way to visualize the problem is to take your trusty screw driver and push it through a sheet of paper. Which end would you use? The pointy one or the handle end? Same amount of work, one is just more sudden then the other one.

Please ignore the above post - It was written by a member educated beyond his means.

Go chop some wood! Its getting cold outside.

 

[starter]

I agree with the doing work part but as I recall the work goes into getting the maul or axe moving. The result of the work is kinetic energy or momentum and that transfers to the wood. The same energy applied with a different shaped wedge... oh crap, forget it, like you said, let's go cut some wood

 

[blunt]

Really got into using my maul this weekend. Its only a 6lb wooden handle one and it first it seem to either bounce or just stick in a cm or 2. Unless I took a real decent swing at it the rounds did not split. Sure, going around the outside helped but it would still often hit the wood but not split.

And then I tried ...

Hitting round real close to the edge ... and the splitting begun!

My 9yo (who has very little interest in anything wood ) watched me for 20 minutes mow through some quite decent size rounds.

'Find that weak spot' Dad he's say as another round was turned into burn-able chunks. :rockn:

I'm saving the biggest rounds for a hydrolic splitter ... just coz I have a bad back' ... but I cant wait to get that maul in my hands again.