Big nasty leaner, no crane access, would like some opinions/ advice

[Slvrmple72]

Brush her out, chunk her down, if she looks solid notch and drop the rest. Then go to lunch. Come back and clean up the mess. Salami cut the chunks starting high on the house side angled down towards the tension side of the trunk so they just slide off and ride down the trunk away from the house. Don't forget to put in your wedge before cutting the low side! No lifting pushing or straining in your climbers doing it that way. Just make sure you have a saw with a big enough bar for the task. See Fundamentals of Treework by Jerry (G.F.) Beranek for details and pics.

Welcome to the Commercial Section, is this your first post? :msp_biggrin:

 

[BlackOakTreeServ]

Yeah if I remember correctly 2ft sounds about right. It has been a while since I looked at this tree because the guy was #####ing about the price. I gave him a bunch of numbers and told him to get as many estimates as possible..... he ended up saving up the money and calling me back.


I am leaning towards the pizza approach. I was hoping somebody on here would come back saying they have had success pulling trees like that.

I may try chunking down cookies without the lift. I have two days on site because of the other tree, which will only take a half day. I could get the top and limbs out on the first day then come in strong in the morning to chunk down the rest.

If I am just slicing out cookies I am thinking I can just make my cuts all the way straight through with a couple of wedges and have the guys pull them over from the ground. Is this how you would make your cuts or would you use a notch or snap cut?

Looks to risky to notch and drop, way to much lean toward house.

Climb it. limb it, rig it, and coin down trunk piece by piece to avoid damage to house.

You could fell the last 8 to 10 feet of trunk with a good notch, tow strap and 4x4 method
this would be the way i would go.....yea, takes longer, but safe..

 

[Kottonwood]

Thanks for all the awesome responses.

I think I am leaning towards what the majority of you guys are saying and I am going to piece it out small. I will most likely try to pull the last 10 ft or so. I have two 4x4 diesels that will be in that field with plenty of pulling power. I will be on that jobsite Wednesday and Thursday of next week. I am taking the easier tree down on the first day and will drill the leaner and assess just to see how much I'll end up pulling over. I hopefully will have the limbs and top roped out on day 1 so I can come in strong in the AM to piece out the spar.

One idea I was thinking about trying is using the forks on my skid loader like wedges and lifting up on the back portion of the cut. Has anyone tried anything like that? I often use the loader like that when making big stump cuts, it makes it go nice and easy. Though, It may be a bad idea to put upward force on the hinge wood.

I am going to video everything and I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

[Kottonwood]

Me and another guy from this site pulled a 3' DBH Oak over with a bad back lean. We took some limbs off on the side over the house to reduce some weight from the back lean, anchored the tree with my 2 ton dump and pulled it over with his GRCS. It was hair raising to say the least but we made it work.

Wow, a GRCS has that much pulling power? I gotta get me one of those. Either that or a big winch for the front of my truck.

 

[thepheniox]

You can cut out a slot in the back of the tree and use a good bottle jack. Instead of trying to use the skid steer. Without being there and having a good look at everything I think I would put a rope in it use a very wide notch and pull it into the field. But that's was easy to type sitting here.

 

[NCTREE]

The only problem with the jack is lifting it so much that the hinge breaks before the tree is over center. I would put a pull line in the top for sure to a come long keeping constant steady pull as the jack raises the tree. The pickup and jack together would be a bad combo. Its risky but its been done. I sure as hell wouldn't enjoy making pizza slices out of a 50" cottonwood.

 

[flushcut]

Stinky cotton wood.

 

[the Aerialist]

Check out the last three minutes of this video ..

The only problem with the jack is lifting it so much that the hinge breaks before the tree is over center. I would put a pull line in the top for sure to a come long keeping constant steady pull as the jack raises the tree. The pickup and jack together would be a bad combo. Its risky but its been done. I sure as hell wouldn't enjoy making pizza slices out of a 50" cottonwood.

I've used bottle jacks on problem trees before, but I found that a low profile floor jack works better and you don't have to use a plate to keep it from sinking into the wood. I wouldn't do it without a pull line though. Here I used a 6000# rope wench with it:

[video=youtube;MmM98L_hQm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0&feature=related[/video]

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I get the impression that some of these guys haven't dealt with Cottonwood. Think soft maple that is at the half rotten stage. Hard enough to hold a nail, but will snap like glass when flexed too much.
You might make pulling it over work ok, but if it snaps early.....look out ! The big problem as I see it is the cost of damage if things go wrong.
And yes, I agree about pizza boxing it being a real PITA, but that is why you price it on the HIGH side.
Rick

 

[flushcut]

You worked much in cotton wood AA? The wood sucks and will snap just by you looking at it and is very prone to rotting at its core. I don't think jacking it over is an option with that leaner. I would say if dude is going to tug her over a heavy truck with another truck as a backup, or some kind of holding line, is in order. As was said above. Chunking it down is probably the best option. It is not the quickest but a safe bet and the smelliest:hmm3grin2orange:. He will, I think, be able to pull large, maybe six foot, sections off at a time once it is wreck out and is clear of the house.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Most of the heartwood in a cottonwood is too brittle to be an effective hinge, your hinge is really just the sapwood on the outside edge. As long as the shell (if the core is rotten) is 6" or more, you should be confident in the holding wood. That is how our cottonwoods react.

Personally I would would lower it by piecing it down and then when you're confident to drop the log, put in a deep undercut (past the 1/2 way point) and pull it over. I wouldn't pull with the truck, I would use the truck as an anchor and put use a 5:1 rope pull or a tirfor. Much better control. By putting in a deep undercut, you are moving the centre of gravity back, making it easier to pull.

 

[the Aerialist]

Cottonwood is not indigenous to my area...

You worked much in cotton wood AA? The wood sucks and will snap just by you looking at it and is very prone to rotting at its core. I don't think jacking it over is an option with that leaner. ...

Cottonwood is not a native tree here in Pennsylvania, although I do have one customer with a row of small ones, probably bought at a Nursery. They are not doing well, and I come back every year or so to take one out. They are of the Poplar family and we do have plenty of them here. Here's a video of me working one and a major limb snaps before I can put the saw to it for a back cut. That's about 3 minutes into the video.

[video=youtube;ei9kE95-chs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei9kE95-chs[/video]

 

[flushcut]

That's what I am saying spooky and not very predictable.

 

[imagineero]

how good is your insurance?

If you havent tested out making a claim and would like to, then taking a risk is a good way to go.

Otherwise, piece it out. I do trees like this pretty much every day, most of my work is in the city and most of it is on top of houses. Puling trees over is almost never an option fo me, because there's no vehicle access, and no yard to drop it in even if there was. This looks like a day job to me, for a climber and 2 or 3 groundies. It has been topped which is nice because you wont have to climb way out there on some awful skinny thing, but bad because you can expect the top to be rotten.

As suggested by another poster, angle your cuts so that the spar wants to slide down. You might be able to take bigger pieces than you think, without much need for rope, but start small and test it out.

That stuff sure is heavy, so even a small piece will KO that house. At 50", cottonwood weighs 670lbs per foot. Less if rotten. Dont fail to take into consideratiion the incredible compression that will be on the low side, and the coresponding tension on the high. If you were going to consider felling a tree like this then the logging forum would be a good place to ask. Guys there take out the most complex trees every day, in their scores. I'm sure most of them would decline this one. Piecing it out is the way to go.

Shaun

 

[ozzy42]

I agree with the others on limbing it then cut cookies.Slow ,dirty ,nasty,pita ,etc.But when it's what you gotta do,it's what you goota do.

If You use the two trucks to pull some of the base over,you may want to pile some of the wood from the top in the beds for added traction.That's usually needed more than a bunch of power.

 

[Kottonwood]

mmmm mmmm nothing like the stench of cottonwood chips in the face to get you going in the morning.

Removing cottonwoods is probably 40-50% of my business, I actually run a google adwords campaign just for that. For some reason people out here in CO still plant them..... I don't get it. I am trying to get people to plant some elms instead. They are definitely unpredictable to hinge, I never fell one without a rope even if it is an easy drop.

I am going to piece this thing down, I'll start small and see how it goes, maybe take a few four or six foot sections. I like the angle cut idea and that is how I am gonna go at it. I hate lifting wood when in my spikes. I am going to put my 36" bar on the 460 to slice out the cookies, then use the husky 3120 to drop the last bit. It is a little bigger of a bar than I normally like to run on the 460 but I am sure it has all the power needed and I don't want to carry the 660 around up there.

Knock on wood, I have never made an insurance claim and I have no desire to try it out. I bid the tree for a full day with two groundies and a skid loader with the slight possibility of renting a lift. we are leaving all the wood on site, just hauling it to his wood splitter. The guy is even letting us broadcast the chips instead of haul them. With all that I am definitely going to take my time on it, no need to push the limits. If we pull the final bit I am gonna throw some snow chains on the tires for some added traction, though I doubt we will need it with two 4x4's doing the pulling.

My 5:1 system is only rated for 1000lbs (though I have pulled more with it) so I think I will stick with the trucks until I get a big ass military grade winch for the front of my truck, or a grcs, whichever happens first.

Thanks for all the input. I am looking forward to getting this one done, should be a fun couple of days.

-Keith

 

[beastmaster]

I wouldn't even consider trying to pull that thing over.:msp_scared: Its iffy at best, and the risk factor is out of this world. If something went wrong it doesn't matter how much your getting paid. You can't take risks with other peoples property.
Chucking that thing down is maybe your only option if you can't use a crane or lift. I've done similar jobs like that a few times and a trick I have use is, after limbing it out, cut a big biscuit(slant downward on the cut)maybe 3ft. Secure a line on it, then have three stronggroundmen get a running pull and catapult that sucker away from the house. Beats cutting and throwing a hundred cookies. Iv'e done it using a truck and a pulley redirect also. Its important the ropes on good or the chunk can slip out.
You could maybe pull the last 10ft of the stick when you get that far.
It being a topped cottonwood there is a good possibility it could be rotten somewhere or be full of smelly water. I think I would check the roots and base of the tree real good also. Can't wait to see the video

 

[Kottonwood]

I've done similar jobs like that a few times and a trick I have use is, after limbing it out, cut a big biscuit(slant downward on the cut)maybe 3ft. Secure a line on it, then have three stronggroundmen get a running pull and catapult that sucker away from the house. Beats cutting and throwing a hundred cookies. Iv'e done it using a truck and a pulley redirect also. Its important the ropes on good or the chunk can slip out.

Yeah, that is exactly how I was thinking I'd do it, have the groundies pull the smaller ones and pull the big ones with the truck.

 

[forestryworks]

You can cut out a slot in the back of the tree and use a good bottle jack. Instead of trying to use the skid steer. Without being there and having a good look at everything I think I would put a rope in it use a very wide notch and pull it into the field. But that's was easy to type sitting here.

That tree would spit that bottle jack out like a potato out of a potato gun.

 

[ozzy42]

Aw right Patriot.
We did our part.Gave you the best advise money can't buy.I'ts been a week.:hmm3grin2orange:

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