mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
My Blake's hitch snugs up too tight and causes me to waste my presious energy advancing it. My slack tending pulley helps but still doesn't advance the knot as easily as I would like. Any eye-dears?
Blake's hitch lock down
- Thread starter mikecross23
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treeman82
Addicted to ArboristSite
How long do you sit on it for? Usually if you sit on your hitch too long it will lock down, I find that with the Blake's you can simply roll the bridge a little bit and that helps loosen it up. Have you tried any of the new high performance hitches yet?
id-ears?
Once i had a 16 strand with a real bad bunching cover. i cut gobs off the cover, and still had situations remniscient of what you present. It got so i only ran the line one way till i finally gave up. And ascending was always a problem, for this reason.
Just a thought, what T82 presents is much more common.
Once i had a 16 strand with a real bad bunching cover. i cut gobs off the cover, and still had situations remniscient of what you present. It got so i only ran the line one way till i finally gave up. And ascending was always a problem, for this reason.
Just a thought, what T82 presents is much more common.
mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
"Have you tried any of the new high performance hitches yet?"
No, I haven't tried any yet. Any recomendations? French Prusik; schwabisch; distal hitch? I'm all ears!
No, I haven't tried any yet. Any recomendations? French Prusik; schwabisch; distal hitch? I'm all ears!
treeclimber165
Member A.K.A Skwerl
Since you are in Tallahassee, maybe you can hook up with Monkeypuzzle (a long term ArboristSite member). Perhaps he can show you the Distal hitch and/or some other tricks.
If you research back in this forum for the last 6 months you should find some of the threads I started when going through the trials and tribulations of switching over to an advanced hitch. Hopefully there is lots of good info there for others going through the same thing. My stubbornness and resistence to change cost me a lot over the many years that I refused to accept any of the 'yuppie climber' methods. But my speed has increased by at least 50% in the last 6 months. I now consider myself one of the best climbers in central Florida and I'm told so by everyone I climb for.
If you research back in this forum for the last 6 months you should find some of the threads I started when going through the trials and tribulations of switching over to an advanced hitch. Hopefully there is lots of good info there for others going through the same thing. My stubbornness and resistence to change cost me a lot over the many years that I refused to accept any of the 'yuppie climber' methods. But my speed has increased by at least 50% in the last 6 months. I now consider myself one of the best climbers in central Florida and I'm told so by everyone I climb for.
mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
TC165, I've spoken w/ monkeypuzzle a few times in the last week but our schedules conflict. I'd like to meet him since we are both from Tally and he is well experienced. I have read through your threads and seen your advancement and have taken that into account. I guess I'm wrong, but I figured I'd start w/ the basics before moving onto the advanced hitches. Thought I heard that mentioned somewhere. Would you recommend ordering from the Sherrill Catalog the eye & eye Prusik Cord (pg. 18) for trying the distal or just getting my own cord and tying my own suitable lengths? Anyway, thanks for the help! 
TreeTx, i favour a 1 down, 2 up distel for a 1 way lanyard/flipline (only use one end like in gibbs adj. lanyard) i find a fair amount of 1 hand adjustability in that system, shrinking the leg, and 1 hand expanding the lanyard's loop while loaded (a trick a gibbs doesn't do so well).
Tom got me started on distel for adj. lanyard, before i even used it for a climbing hitch (that i now exclusively use), also years later pointed out it adjusted easily under load unlike the $60(?)gibbs. Dropping the 'choking ring' count is my contrivation, i generally go with 4+choking rings on lifeline hitches (1 on temporary stay, 2-3 choking grabs on rigs, elevating to 4+ on lifeline); but have bent that rule of thumb for this, with no apparent complications. i was trying for 1 hand adjustability, least amount of drag with a knot tender etc., but found in this configuration, that i didn't need a knot tender. The single ring of the lacing seems to do a fair job of pushing the other 2 rings up towards the snap to adjust. When it comes time to grab, the 'finger puzzle' sock effect that i beleive MM refered to about VT class of hitches is observable to me in the way the hitch stretches out and grabs the line. I have made 3 of these for people, everyone seems to love'em, can't find anything wrong; save a lil'discomfort over dropping that 4th choking ring that i see in virtually all of our climbing hitches as a common denominator, that i have used to help define things.
Tom got me started on distel for adj. lanyard, before i even used it for a climbing hitch (that i now exclusively use), also years later pointed out it adjusted easily under load unlike the $60(?)gibbs. Dropping the 'choking ring' count is my contrivation, i generally go with 4+choking rings on lifeline hitches (1 on temporary stay, 2-3 choking grabs on rigs, elevating to 4+ on lifeline); but have bent that rule of thumb for this, with no apparent complications. i was trying for 1 hand adjustability, least amount of drag with a knot tender etc., but found in this configuration, that i didn't need a knot tender. The single ring of the lacing seems to do a fair job of pushing the other 2 rings up towards the snap to adjust. When it comes time to grab, the 'finger puzzle' sock effect that i beleive MM refered to about VT class of hitches is observable to me in the way the hitch stretches out and grabs the line. I have made 3 of these for people, everyone seems to love'em, can't find anything wrong; save a lil'discomfort over dropping that 4th choking ring that i see in virtually all of our climbing hitches as a common denominator, that i have used to help define things.
treeclimber165
Member A.K.A Skwerl
I bought one of those Tenex things and did not like it at all. The only thing it did was show me how much better a Distal was over a Blakes or Tautline hitch. I burned through it in 3-4 days I think.
I'd recommend spending the extra $6 and getting an Ultra Tech eye-spliced cord (22176). The benifit of having an eye-spliced cord while learning how to use the advanced hitches is important, IMHO. There will be enough for you to think about without worrying over your double fisherman's knots on your tres cord, or the length of your tres cord. After a few days/weeks with the eye-spliced cord, you will probably feel better about buying bulk cordage and cutting/tying your own. At that point I'd be happy to share a few sources of rope for tres cords.
mikecross23
ArboristSite Guru
Sounds like a plan TC165, I'll get back to you in a few weeks after I've become a "yuppie climber". . . JK after I get the cord and can put it to use a bit. I'm sure it's probably cheaper to tie your own too so I'll sure be looking for some cord resources and what kind you recommend.
treeclimber165
Member A.K.A Skwerl
Make sure you have a tender pulley and proper 'biners. I like the Petzl Am'D and Williams 'biners. The advanced hitches are easiest to use with a tender pulley mounted on the 'biner so you can advance by pulling the tail of your lifeline.
This is the hitch I'm using (I stole this picture somewhere online). It's very similar to the tautline hitch, easy to tie and very predictable in how it handles. It's an excellent starting point for trying out advanced hitches IMHO.
(I had to print out a picture to carry with me so I could tie it the first couple days :blush: )
This is the hitch I'm using (I stole this picture somewhere online). It's very similar to the tautline hitch, easy to tie and very predictable in how it handles. It's an excellent starting point for trying out advanced hitches IMHO.
(I had to print out a picture to carry with me so I could tie it the first couple days :blush: )
just another bit of trivia, it is DISTEL, not distal.
Here is Uli's web page.http://www.baumkletterteam.com/ueberuns.php?var=4
All these pics remind me of how comfy I get when I should still be trying new variations.
Brian - I was the same way with the Vt the first few times
Here is Uli's web page.http://www.baumkletterteam.com/ueberuns.php?var=4
All these pics remind me of how comfy I get when I should still be trying new variations.
Brian - I was the same way with the Vt the first few times
Kneejerk Bombas
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I think it's interesting that one would use a different hitch for climbing or lanyard.
Don't you want the same qualities in both hitches?
I personally give new hitches a run on the lanyard first. That way if I were to mess up, I only go to the end of the lanyard. Then I run them on the climbing line for a few days. If it's supperior to the last I keep it on until the next one comes along.
I have two hitches now that perform very well, actually about equal.
I do argee the distel is a good place to start, it is almost the same knot as the tautline hitch, just both ends secured, so it may be familiar to oldtimers. Don't get too comfortable though, there are better hitches out there.
Here's a good site
Don't you want the same qualities in both hitches?
I personally give new hitches a run on the lanyard first. That way if I were to mess up, I only go to the end of the lanyard. Then I run them on the climbing line for a few days. If it's supperior to the last I keep it on until the next one comes along.
I have two hitches now that perform very well, actually about equal.
I do argee the distel is a good place to start, it is almost the same knot as the tautline hitch, just both ends secured, so it may be familiar to oldtimers. Don't get too comfortable though, there are better hitches out there.
Here's a good site
Do all you guys use 4 top rings on distel for climbing? i always use 3, and 1 under for a total of 4 grabbing the host line. i like my knot tender to come over from the static leg of my DdRT, so when it is engaged, and i pull down on the line it immediately pushes up on the knot, instead of taking up slack, then pushing friction hitch up.
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
Distel for you, Distel for me...
....I like the distel when I'm in the tree.... (sung to the tune of Adam Sandlers "Thanksgiving Song."
On both my lanyard and my climbing line, I use a 3-over-1 Distel. My lanyard is currently 3/8ths Tenex Single Braid 25" long. My climbing hitch is 26" long 3/8" diameter New England Sta-Set polyester double-braid with an eye spliced on each end. Both work well for me, though sometimes i notice that the top of my climbing hitch tries to kindof unwrap itself behind the knot, if that makes sense. I sometimes have to just take a 14th of a second to reset it...the climbing line tends to advance smoother if the hitch is not "unrolling." Does this make any sense at all?
When showing others the Schwabish and the Distel, I start with the classic prussik, then tie a Schwabish below it on the same climbing line, that way they can see that the common prussik is just a 2-over-2 Schwabish. Then from there, I show that the Distel takes the advancement one step further by the two eyes coming out different sides of the piece that crosses from top to bottom of the hitch. (A neat way to remember the two knots is that in the Schwabish the eyes come out the same side, and in the Distel, the eyes come our different sides. Schwabish Same, Distel Different. Got it? Good.)
I've found that if you tie both knots with a 3-over-1, the Schwabish tends to lock up more, but the Distel lets the climbing line slide through easier during line advancement. Does this coincide with your guys' experiences?
That's all about this from me.....for now...HA HA HA HA (sinister laugh)
love
nick
....I like the distel when I'm in the tree.... (sung to the tune of Adam Sandlers "Thanksgiving Song."
On both my lanyard and my climbing line, I use a 3-over-1 Distel. My lanyard is currently 3/8ths Tenex Single Braid 25" long. My climbing hitch is 26" long 3/8" diameter New England Sta-Set polyester double-braid with an eye spliced on each end. Both work well for me, though sometimes i notice that the top of my climbing hitch tries to kindof unwrap itself behind the knot, if that makes sense. I sometimes have to just take a 14th of a second to reset it...the climbing line tends to advance smoother if the hitch is not "unrolling." Does this make any sense at all?
When showing others the Schwabish and the Distel, I start with the classic prussik, then tie a Schwabish below it on the same climbing line, that way they can see that the common prussik is just a 2-over-2 Schwabish. Then from there, I show that the Distel takes the advancement one step further by the two eyes coming out different sides of the piece that crosses from top to bottom of the hitch. (A neat way to remember the two knots is that in the Schwabish the eyes come out the same side, and in the Distel, the eyes come our different sides. Schwabish Same, Distel Different. Got it? Good.)
I've found that if you tie both knots with a 3-over-1, the Schwabish tends to lock up more, but the Distel lets the climbing line slide through easier during line advancement. Does this coincide with your guys' experiences?
That's all about this from me.....for now...HA HA HA HA (sinister laugh)
love
nick
Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
I use the 3up and 2down for my climbing hitch and flipline.
The climbing hitch is tenex and the flipline hitch is kernmantle prusik cord.
Works well for me!
The climbing hitch is tenex and the flipline hitch is kernmantle prusik cord.
Works well for me!
FSburt
ArboristSite Operative
Been using the Distel since Sept and it is like night and day compared to the Blakes and Taughtline hitch. I to use a 3 over 1 but I need to shorten up the end some to allow it to advance better.
Nick i like how you try to link the lessons of diffrent knots inot groups/ families for folx to more easily learn and confidentally employ groups of knots. i do the same thing, only i start with a girth hitch/ sling choker as 'primary' 1 up,1 down prusik formation and expand it to a clove hitch family, of which the tautline, rolling hitch and distel are part of. i further point out that they all have a 'Z' bar and continue with the lacing all in the same direction of coiling, this makes this whole family 'walkers' save those who's tail is anchored as in a constrictor, Distel or 2 half hitches. Also the internal friction of the coils tends to track agianst the standing end, powering it, in a clove this is towards coming undone, in a prusik that action too walks the knot tighter, what a simple marvel! Clove, Rolling, Tautline being in this family of half hitches defines and imparts the family characteristics of walking out,thereby all but the self anchoring need a positive mechanical stop as part of the design of any like them (exerpt of the stopper knot after tautline on your 'frickin lifeline speach ). The girth/prusik family i have always found don't walk, jsut tighten up more as the straight bar is pushed away from the tail of release/ fail (even when the prusik is in the uncommon 1 legged stance/use), while the 'Z' bar clove family walks towards the tail of release/fail because loading pushes the 'Z' bar towards the end of the line.
I find grouping the knots in families is easier to learn/remember, less material allowing more volume and potency of comprehensive view and understanding, and each on the job example of what you've learned reinforces lessons of 4 knots and not just the singular knot that you are working with.
). The girth/prusik family i have always found don't walk, jsut tighten up more as the straight bar is pushed away from the tail of release/ fail (even when the prusik is in the uncommon 1 legged stance/use), while the 'Z' bar clove family walks towards the tail of release/fail because loading pushes the 'Z' bar towards the end of the line.I find grouping the knots in families is easier to learn/remember, less material allowing more volume and potency of comprehensive view and understanding, and each on the job example of what you've learned reinforces lessons of 4 knots and not just the singular knot that you are working with.
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