Bucking Small Logs - See Diagrams

[MtnHermit]

To date I've only bucked logs cantilevered, supported at one end only. I need to learn proper technique for bucking a log supported at both ends and often on a slope. This diagram shows the situation with small implying the log diameter less than the bar length, not small as in not dangerous.

The second diagram shows the cut sequence:

My Question:

• Since the last cut is made from the bottom, what happens when the log drops? Seems it would knock the saw from your grip?

I'll be carrying the saw a mile or more from my vehicle at 12,000 feet, so I'll be bringing just the chainsaw and a small hand saw, no other tools.

Thanks

 

[Sport Faller]

To date I've only bucked logs cantilevered, supported at one end only. I need to learn proper technique for bucking a log supported at both ends and often on a slope. This diagram shows the situation with small implying the log diameter less than the bar length, not small as in not dangerous.

The second diagram shows the cut sequence:

My Question:

• Since the last cut is made from the bottom, what happens when the log drops? Seems it would knock the saw from your grip?

I'll be carrying the saw a mile or more from my vehicle at 12,000 feet, so I'll be bringing just the chainsaw and a small hand saw, no other tools.

Thanks

Whoa Homes, I don't care if it's a 3" Mountain Maple branch, if it's loaded with tension and you read it wrong it can still wail the cat #### out of you

 

[John Ellison]

In the top pic notice the log on the right will stay in place after the cut while the log on the left drops free. (hopefully) It will drop free if you angle the cut ever so slightly from top to bottom. Meaning it is angled toward the left at the top of your cut. Angle it the other way and your bar is stuck and the logs are still in the air. Even a right angle cut will usually hang up and you will have to wedge. Just a tiny angle is all it takes.

 

[MtnHermit]

Whoa Homes, I don't care if it's a 3" Mountain Maple branch, if it's loaded with tension and you read it wrong it can still wail the cat #### out of you

You read it exactly opposite as intended, ALL LOGS are Dangerous, that's why I posted the question.

To the point of the post, Do you know anything about cutting safely???

 

[MtnHermit]

Just a tiny angle is all it takes.

Thanks John,

So the falling log won't push the bar down? Seems too good to be true.

Then all I have to account for is the possible rolling of the dropped log, a rock or small logs should solve that.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I've never had the saw knocked out of my hands. Basically the saw is in the cut, so the log passes it by. Also I always have a firm grip on the saw with both hands.

FYI - When learning these cuts, the saw can get stuck in a cut. Then you need another saw or a jack to jack up the log to get the saw out. Although that is for the very large trees we have around here. If they will be small logs, then I suppose you could lift them in that case? If not, bring a spare saw and/or jack.

And for the rolling after the cut. Always saw from the uphill side, then they roll away from you hopefully...

 

[John Ellison]

If you make the cut right your bar is free as soon as the log moves. Look everything over carefully before you start to cut. This side will drop that side should stay still, this side will possibly roll and pivot, ect. ect. If you plan before you cut you can most always find a safe place to do the work from.
In your first post I see chainsaw, handsaw and no other tools. You will regret it if you do not carry at least one plastic wedge. Make that two. You can cut clubs as you go but one or two wedges are light and would be invaluable. Just think if your first cut is not perfect your saw is hung up solid, what are you going to do then?

 

[MtnHermit]

If you make the cut right your bar is free as soon as the log moves. Look everything over carefully before you start to cut. This side will drop that side should stay still, this side will possibly roll and pivot, ect. ect. If you plan before you cut you can most always find a safe place to do the work from.

I like the looking and thinking part, basically you're saying the equivalent of measure twice, cut once. Lots of time to study the slope to figure out where gravity will take the free log.

In your first post I see chainsaw, handsaw and no other tools. You will regret it if you do not carry at least one plastic wedge. Make that two. You can cut clubs as you go but one or two wedges are light and would be invaluable. Just think if your first cut is not perfect your saw is hung up solid, what are you going to do then?

Okay, I'll stop by the hardware store and get a least one wedge, I have several weeks, so no rush. On Amazon I saw 5.5", 8" and 10", is the small one sufficient? My max log would be 24", mostly 6" diameter. I like you suggested making a club in the field.

Let's make this more complicated. Instead of the upper resting on the ground, what if it's 12" up and the lower part now drops 24". More moving parts, what do I watch for or am I out of my league?

Thanks, I'm learning.

 

[John Ellison]

Let's make this more complicated. Instead of the upper resting on the ground, what if it's 12" up and the lower part now drops 24". More moving parts, what do I watch for or am I out of my league?
[/QUOTE]

Not following you, where is the log supported or touching the ground?

I suppose any would be better than nothing, but I would stick an 8 or 10" in each back pocket. You will hardly know they are there.

 

[madhatte]

I think the question is now about top binds vs bottom binds. The process is pretty much the same but reversed; that is, relief cut from below first, then finish the cut from above. With tree species that are prone to slabbing, it's often useful to offset the relief cut by an inch or two in order to give the pulling wood someplace to stop.

 

[sawinredneck]

The first rule of Physics on this is the less weight there is, the less force and momentum there is to deal with.
My approach would be to cut off as much of the logs as you can before tackling the more dangerous cut. Cut it into manageable pieces cutting down as far as you dare, but not into the dirt. On most thick barked trees the bark keeps you out of the dirt, but leaves enough room to cut through the wood to free it. Then a good roll with your foot moves it away and lowers the force you are dealing with in the next cut.
Think of it as when you fall a tree, if you cut the base of the stump first you have a lot of forces working and moving as you cut. Start at the top and cut down to the base, all the weight is gone so the forces are minimal and easier to predict.
I have done the cut shown but always with a bar the reached all the way across what I was cutting. I've pinched the bar more times than I can count! I've got to start learning how to do it with a shorter bar now and am not looking forward to it at all! It's hard to master!

 

[Sport Faller]

You read it exactly opposite as intended, ALL LOGS are Dangerous, that's why I posted the question.

To the point of the post, Do you know anything about cutting safely???

Yeah jagoff I do, you worded it as though these logs were too small to be dangerous

Jesus, you try to help somebody and all the sudden they're Paul Bunyan and I'm fricken HBRN :msp_rolleyes:

 

[beowulf343]

FYI - When learning these cuts, the saw can get stuck in a cut. Then you need another saw or a jack to jack up the log to get the saw out. Although that is for the very large trees we have around here. If they will be small logs, then I suppose you could lift them in that case? If not, bring a spare saw and/or jack.

Or a scrench (which should be carried anyway) and another bar and a chain. I've taken the power head off a pinched bar and put on a different bar and chain a few times in the woods.

 

[MtnHermit]

Let's make this more complicated. Instead of the upper resting on the ground, what if it's 12" up and the lower part now drops 24". More moving parts, what do I watch for or am I out of my league?

Not following you, where is the log supported or touching the ground?

For discussion, the dead fall root is uphill and the top of the 12" x 30-foot tree is downhill. The tree is only only touching at the top and root. The root will prevent either rolling or sliding downhill. I will have a lot of potential energy as the tree drops down wherever I cut. Can I safely cut in the mid span? My goal is a 3-foot wide clear path, no interest in any part of the tree.

Appreciate your time.

 

[MtnHermit]

I think the question is now about top binds vs bottom binds. The process is pretty much the same but reversed; that is, relief cut from below first, then finish the cut from above. With tree species that are prone to slabbing, it's often useful to offset the relief cut by an inch or two in order to give the pulling wood someplace to stop.

You've used a lot of terms I've never heard before: binds, relief cut, slabbing, pulling wood. Where do I learn more? Most likely I'll be cutting spruce and lodgepole, too high for much else. Can you simplify any of this?

Thanks for the post.

 

[MtnHermit]

I've taken the power head off a pinched bar and put on a different bar and chain a few times in the woods.

That's a good idea I hadn't thought of. But my plan was to use the 14" handsaw if I get a bind.

Thanks

 

[mdavlee]

Top bind will be when the log is supported more on both ends and a span in the middle. When the bottom cut is made the top will bind together. The bottom bind is say whe its laying on a high spot and both ends will sag some when you cut the top.

 

[slangegger]

For discussion, the dead fall root is uphill and the top of the 12" x 30-foot tree is downhill. The tree is only only touching at the top and root. The root will prevent either rolling or sliding downhill. I will have a lot of potential energy as the tree drops down wherever I cut. Can I safely cut in the mid span? My goal is a 3-foot wide clear path, no interest in any part of the tree.

Appreciate your time.

Be careful cutting trees that have been blown down. The root ball could have a lot of pressure still on it. If you cut mid span, once the weight of the top is removed, the root ball could stand the tree back up (in a hurry). Getting hit by that would not be plesant.

Picture like this, but a lot faster.
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[MtnHermit]

The first rule of Physics on this is the less weight there is, the less force and momentum there is to deal with.

Do understand, that's is the very reason I've posted. Knowledge is part theory and part practice, I lack the practice.

My approach would be to cut off as much of the logs as you can before tackling the more dangerous cut. Cut it into manageable pieces cutting down as far as you dare, but not into the dirt. On most thick barked trees the bark keeps you out of the dirt, but leaves enough room to cut through the wood to free it. Then a good roll with your foot moves it away and lowers the force you are dealing with in the next cut.

It all come down to good judgement which mostly comes from experience. I'm trying to learn in words the forum members experience.

Think of it as when you fall a tree, if you cut the base of the stump first you have a lot of forces working and moving as you cut. Start at the top and cut down to the base, all the weight is gone so the forces are minimal and easier to predict.
I have done the cut shown but always with a bar the reached all the way across what I was cutting. I've pinched the bar more times than I can count!

I've only dropped one small tree, no need for another, lifetime of deadfall within 3 miles of me.

I've got to start learning how to do it with a shorter bar now and am not looking forward to it at all! It's hard to master!

That will be my next question, when the tree is bigger than the bar.

Thanks

 

[slangegger]

Here is a good video on how to cut spring poles.

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It would prolly be worth your time to watch all the vids in this series.