Building Log Lift, How to add 2nd Valve

[dirtyedge]

I am in the process of designing and building a log lift for my log splitter. I built it from scratch 6 years ago and used a prince detent valve for the ram.

I have seen a few log lifts on here that look like they ran 2 of the prince detent valves in series. Is this an acceptable way of running them? ( supply to IN on first valve OUT to the IN on second valve and OUT to reservoir)

If you have any other designs or have used them this way succesfully please let me know.

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Here's your illustration posted for you!

I am in the process of designing and building a log lift for my log splitter. I built it from scratch 6 years ago and used a prince detent valve for the ram.

I have seen a few log lifts on here that look like they ran 2 of the prince detent valves in series. Is this an acceptable way of running them? ( supply to IN on first valve OUT to the IN on second valve and OUT to reservoir)

If you have any other designs or have used them this way succesfully please let me know.

Thanks,
Aaron

Aaron

I don't know the answer to your question but here's your illustration posted for you!

Dan

 

[Mike Van]

Aaron, mines hooked up that way, in series. It's worked fine for years. However, it is said that to add valves 'downstream" the first valve should have a power-beyond port. There's a way I guess for pressure to build up in series without this port [the port just lets this fluid have a place to go back to the tank]

 

[dirtyedge]

Mike,

What valves are you running? I am currently using the log splitter detent valve from NothernTool item # 2020, and would prefer to use a second one that is the same.

Is anyone using these Prince valves in Series? or do I have to find one with the Power beyond port

 

[Mike Van]

Same ones Aaron - I've got three hooked in series.

 

[Blazin]

I just opted to get a combo valve from http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009012318083652&item=9-7414&catname=hydraulic Alot less screwin around.

 

[skid row]

I just opted to get a combo valve from http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009012318083652&item=9-7414&catname=hydraulic Alot less screwin around.

If you already got one valve just buy another(less than $100). The other option is if you have no valve money invested already you can get the 2 spool valve from surplus center that is designed for splitters with a log lift.

It's pricey at $229.95 not including shipping..... Item#9-7414.

I ran two valves in series on my splitter. I could not justify spending the extra coin for a two spool valve since I already had a single spool splitter valve already. The second identical valve cost me $64. All I can say is after 300 hours of splitting last year it works just fine.

 

[SWI Don]

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/RD5000InstS.pdf

Here is a link to a pdf showing how to do it by the book. This is how mine is done - autocycle, log lift & hydraulic adjustable 4-way.

Don

 

[aokpops]

don,t need a log lift . just build a swing axle .no extra cylinder or valve .half to roll the rounds to the splitter anyway . just roll it on the splitter. if you can wait I will try to get some pics .

 

[Butch(OH)]

Some people are passing pure horse hockey by saying it is not acceptable, or it is immoral or anything other than plain OK to place open center valves in series or "stacked" in this application ( sorry for the rant, second time this week for this discussion). You can go look at any older back hoe, grader etc that was built back when such equipment had gear pumps and all the valves were open center and made to stack with long through bolts. Want to have 50 valves? just need to find long enough bolts. I have worked on this stuff for a living for 35 of my 52 years.

With the single valves like you have stacking is a simple matter of a pipe nipple long enough to give clearance to turn, dope the threads and screw them together out port to in port just like you said. The only way you can have excess pressures as some claim is if you fail to properly set the reliefs in the valves and then your going to have it no matter if you pull one valve at once or twenty one. Each open center valve has a relief for that circuit. If you pull two or more valves at once the lowest set relief will control system PSI. period end of discussion.

Also BS is "you cant run two functions at once with stacked valves". Want to see my splitter do it? Seldom will you pull two valves at once on a splitter anyway unless you have a good helper and if so he better be both good and attentive. Want to get hurt spltting wood? get lots off things moving and two guys pulling levers. I have two darned good helpers and it is taboo for morethan one guy to be yanking levers.

Power beyond is needed in systems much more complex in flows and performance than wood splitters. To understand Power beyond you need to understand open center and closed center valves. Open center means that when in the hold position oil flows unrestricted from the in port to the out port Closed center means oil is topped from flowing when valve is in the center. Obviously you cannot stop the oil from flowing when you have a simple gear or vane pump as used on our splitters. The oil flow is either is used for work or goes straight through the valve(s) and back to the tank. Back before the term power beyond was invented we did the same thing with what is called a "convertible" valves. An open center convertible valve was made closed center by installing a plug in the spool so oil could not flow through it when centered. These were used in systems that required that type of valve (another long winded discussion) Now a days they are still called convert a valves, untill placed in a "power beyond" situation. Power beyond is nothing new, it just a modern term for placing two or more control valves in parellel flows instead of series. But back to a splitting ciruit, converting valve 1 in the flows to closed center is what the power beyond conversion is in the Prince flow example from prior poster (I have that same valve) The second valve must then be open center. If you wish to go that route and want better instructions for plumbing Illbe glad to try and help you out.


I guess I have said enough, LOL

Pic is my splitter with 4 valves stacked or in series . First is a 2 spool Prince Auto cycle valve, then the wedge lift, then the log lift which are just ordinary “log splitter” valves sold at many places. Wont guide the space shuttle, but doesn’t need to.

<IMG SRC= http://i30.tinypic.com/2h6h8q0.jpg>

 

[Modifiedmark]

Good post Butch and right on with it.

Mines been doubled up for years...

Nice WD by the way also

 

[SWI Don]

Butch,

I didn't say anything about acceptable or immoral. I just posted the manufactures recommended method. This is the same way a Timberwolf TW-5 is plumbed and also the way I plumbed mine. If it works for you to run them in series, go for it.

Valve one is not necessarily a closed center valve to start with. Although if it was closed center linking tank drain to pressure port on the second valve isn't going to work.

I would venture to say that the stack valves on the backhoe vs the monoblock valves we are talking about had a parallel circuit to allow simultaneous functions running the backhoe. I will digress that you have worked on them first hand and I do not have direct knowledge of the systems you speak of.

You are right that log splitting is a series operation - you do one thing at a time. Running more than one thing at once will generally get someone hurt.

Unless someone deleted a post it looks like you are lighting my a$$ up for no good reason. I hope what ever was eating on you is better now.

Peace

Don

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Do you have more pictures of your wood system?

Do you have more pictures of your wood system? It looks like you've got a nice system there!

Thanks

Dan

Pic is my splitter with 4 valves stacked or in series . First is a 2 spool Prince Auto cycle valve, then the wedge lift, then the log lift which are just ordinary “log splitter” valves sold at many places. Wont guide the space shuttle, but doesn’t need to.

<IMG SRC= http://i30.tinypic.com/2h6h8q0.jpg>

 

[dirtyedge]

Butch,
Thanks for clearing it up for me. I will run them in series, it helps having more knowledge on the subject before tackling the job. Also do you know of a good flow control valve for the log lift? ( or is it really needed) I have heard some people talk about using them to slow the lift otherwise the lift flips up too quick.

aokpops,
I built my logsplitter with hubs that can be flipped to take the working height from about 30 inches down to about 8 but I would much rather have a log lift and be able to stand up while splitting than have to bend down all day while trying to roll the logs up on the beam.
I also like the added table that you gain by having the log lift.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Butch,

I didn't say anything about acceptable or immoral. I just posted the manufactures recommended method. This is the same way a Timberwolf TW-5 is plumbed and also the way I plumbed mine. If it works for you to run them in series, go for it.

Valve one is not necessarily a closed center valve to start with. Although if it was closed center linking tank drain to pressure port on the second valve isn't going to work.

I would venture to say that the stack valves on the backhoe vs the monoblock valves we are talking about had a parallel circuit to allow simultaneous functions running the backhoe. I will digress that you have worked on them first hand and I do not have direct knowledge of the systems you speak of.

You are right that log splitting is a series operation - you do one thing at a time. Running more than one thing at once will generally get someone hurt.

Unless someone deleted a post it looks like you are lighting my a$$ up for no good reason. I hope what ever was eating on you is better now.

Peace

Don

Peace brother, I didn't aim any comment at you. It was kinda tersly worded I see that now. Was arguing same point on another site (second time thius week comment) with two hydraulic rocket scientists.

Series is not better, but it works for what is asked of a splitter system. Is easier for the novice to plumb and understand when he was problems and cheaper to buy.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Do you have more pictures of your wood system? It looks like you've got a nice system there!

Thanks

Dan

Sure enough, best part of my system is the help but they are going to college next fall so i am trying to get where I can do it alone, 11 cord a year/

<IMG SRC=http://i30.tinypic.com/s4cbjb.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i28.tinypic.com/2gwx24z.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i29.tinypic.com/31619uf.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i27.tinypic.com/2ztiy53.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i26.tinypic.com/15eicf8.jpg>


Two ways to slow the lift, cheapest is to buy a larger diameter cylinder than you realy need for the lift. You can also use a flow controller as used to control motors but that adds much cost and plumbing. You could use a needle type valve in the lift circuit and let the relief valve jack while lifting but that is kinda backwoods way and hard on the pump and relief valve.

 

[Blazin]

Nice unit!
I brazed my lower fitting on the lift cylinder shut, and then drilled a 3/32 hole thru it..... Free flow restricter

 

[Modifiedmark]

Nice unit!
I brazed my lower fitting on the lift cylinder shut, and then drilled a 3/32 hole thru it..... Free flow restricter

Exactly what I did on mine, except I used a 1/8" drill, but should have went smaller.

 

[lotzy13881]

valve stacking

Sure enough, best part of my system is the help but they are going to college next fall so i am trying to get where I can do it alone, 11 cord a year/

<IMG SRC=http://i30.tinypic.com/s4cbjb.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i28.tinypic.com/2gwx24z.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i29.tinypic.com/31619uf.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i27.tinypic.com/2ztiy53.jpg>

<IMG SRC=http://i26.tinypic.com/15eicf8.jpg>


Two ways to slow the lift, cheapest is to buy a larger diameter cylinder than you realy need for the lift. You can also use a flow controller as used to control motors but that adds much cost and plumbing. You could use a needle type valve in the lift circuit and let the relief valve jack while lifting but that is kinda backwoods way and hard on the pump and relief valve.

Just wanted to know I built a splitter and have the auto cycle valve like yours. Does the out port have to go back to the tank or can i put another single valve there.

 

[SWI Don]

Just wanted to know I built a splitter and have the auto cycle valve like yours. Does the out port have to go back to the tank or can i put another single valve there.

It should work fine as long as the downstream valve is not too restrictive. I personally would (and did) put the auto cycle valve as last in the chain. That way you have less chance of a back pressure spike when the valve switches directions. The backpressure could trip the second detent.

If it is going to be a big tear up to put it last then try it with the additional valve on the return line. If it works consistently then keep it.

Don