Can't believe this is legal!

[treeman82]

Hey fellas. I am sittin in my room right now listening to my new neighbor across the street. He apparently rented a chipper and is cleaning up a big mess that he created. His property is MAYBE 1/2 an acre. More accurate would be 1/3 of an acre or between there. I went by a few weeks ago and cut maybe 13 trees for him or somewhere around there. Most of them were in the center of the back lawn, one in the front lawn, etc. Well now he is going and removing another at least 20 - 30 trees from the property. He removed EVERYTHING along the back which gives his neighbors to his rear privacy. He removed just about everything to his right which now takes privacy away from the people to the left and right. Now you can look in through their windows and what not. He also is doing some SEVERE pruning to the trees in front of the house (2 remaining). I know that he removed at least 50% of the trees from the property. 75% may be more realistic. Out in Bedford if he had done this, he would be getting sued right now by the town for a nice chunk of change (THOUSANDS). FYI he removed a Cornus florida.
I went today to the town hall and they informed me that he was perfectly within his rights. They didn't care so long as he was not cutting on wet lands and that he was not affecting more than 5,000 sq ft of land. When I asked them how they measure those 5,000 sq ft they replied that it is measured from trunk to trunk.
I will be going to the board meeting next tuesday to talk about instituting a tree ordinance.

 

[kf_tree]

if you did not want to see the tree's come down, then you should have bought the property your self. if there his tree's what is the problem? you have no right to judge what he does on his own property. i stopped caring about tree's for the most part a long time ago. if the customer wants them hat racked i'll do it. after trying to educate customers with no response, i gave up. ok you want me to take a whole side of 200 year old oak out to clear for succoth, no sweat i'll give a price. no offense but you sound like the ladies screaming why are you cutting that tree down.

 

[treeman82]

Spike-it. I am not trying to sound like an old lady who cries when you take down a single tree on a property, or 2 or 3 trees, or a hazard tree over a house or what not. I am talking about removing over half the trees on a property for no real reason, and by doing so removing privacy from several neighbors.

 

[kf_tree]

my buddy was removing a bunch of tree's in a lot next to a co op building. they were putting up a 12 story building, so the people in the co op were looseing there windows. now thats a bummer. if the guy across the street asked you to price the job to remove all the tree's would you have no? or woulds you have done the job and taken his money. could you be crying sour grapes.

 

[kf_tree]

also did you speak to him? maybe he needs to fix a setic system or is putting in an inground pool. if the lots that big he may even throw up a small house if zoning permits. or plans to extend his house. didv he just purchase the property?

 

[Jumper]

I would prefer to see trees on a lot as well, but I side with Spike It-if it is private land be far from me to judge what is "Right" and what is "Wrong", especially when it involves someone else's personal property. Perhaps they are allergic, or want to have all new landscaping, or do not like the house shaded, or want to put in a pool or extension; there are a dozen legit reasons why. Nor do I think ordnances are the answer-if someone really wants to get rid of a tree and the local government in their infinate wisdom says "No", there are a number of ways to kill it, and then it has to be removed. I am more than willing to listen to governments(or individuals) tell me what I will be doing with my proprty when they have paid cold hard cash for it.

This reminds me of when I bought this house in 92, the original landscaping plan had a pine tree on the front lawn and I did not want it at all. Big argurement ensued with the landscaper who told me I had to take it because that is what the city had approved for the site. BS I replied, stand by to recover it out of the middle of the street. Finally I did get my point across that when the city wanted to start paying my mortgage, they would be more than welcome to dictate the type of tree I would have , until then, GTH. Ended up with a crabapple.

 

[Jumper]

Trees

The number of trees you have quoted sounds like too many for 1/3 to 1/2 acre!

 

[mikey]

legal?

Hey Treeman 82, Although it is legal,I hate to see this.Some people like to live in neighborhoods where all the houses look the same,are sitting side by side on their 1/3 acre lots with all the trees gone. When I see this closing in,Its time to move.

 

[Toddppm]

Originally posted by spike_it
i stopped caring about tree's for the most part a long time ago. if the customer wants them hat racked i'll do it. after trying to educate customers with no response, i gave up. ok you want me to take a whole side of 200 year old oak out to clear for succoth, no sweat i'll give a price.

Is this why you gave up your biz? I don't care if someone wants to take out their trees either but I do care about doing a proper job that I know I can go back later and hopefully have a repeat customer for a long time. Spike everything too? Guess theres just too much work there and not enough people to do it?

 

[jbw]

agreeing with todd

todd, i agree with you there are too many people in the arboriculture field who lack integrity and can't really call themselves arborists. the ISA is doing a lot to educate these people but some are in it for the money rather than the respect of the trees. i am continuously busy with customers and i will not top a tree, remove more than 25% of a trees canopy, lion tail, etc. or any other practice that will lead to the decline of the tree. if money is the motivating factor for your tree care business, i believe that there are many less hazardous occupations where you can make more money- try politics or drug dealing.

 

[tshanefreeman]

Perhaps I am still new to the business world as a sole propietor but THERE IS NO WAY THAT I WILL BRAND MY NAME ON S%$TY WORK! I have turned down business before and I will most-likely turn more down in the future. I will always strive to educate the people why this isn't in the best interest of their landscape, but some still wish to find a hack down the road that will do exactly what they want. I try to emphasize to the customer the idea of planting the right tree for the right location, to avoid problems such as the obstruction of views or having extensive growth into overhead power lines. However, today's society tends to what instant results and gratification............. kind of like a paycheck........hmmmmmmmm!

The main reason why I am not working for someone else right now, is because their practices and reputations clashed with my morals........... I am not a tree-hugger, but I do believe in tree preservation and city beautification and if we all do what the uneducated society wishes, we would all live in a ugly world. Why have recognized standards and organizations such as ISA if people are willing to bend and break the rules only to get a fatter wallet!

 

[TREETX]

What is wrong with money being a motivating factor in a tree care business?? Money, good money is the only way to provide good tree care. A person doing tree care just for the good of his heart is never going to do as good a job as the guy who is performing and excellent service for excellent compensation.

Private land is private land. That is what makes this country great. As long as they are complying with laws/ordinances, I might try to talk them into saving the 200+ oak, but if they want it gone, I'll give a number.

Money is a great motivator. Those who say it is the root of all evil and corruption just say that because they don't have enough. Work to live, not live to work. I hate this attitude that it is a crime to make money.

What motivates YOUR biz if it is not $$$$???

Since when is the ISA GOD?? Being certified just states that you have at least a MINIMAL amount of knowledge and skill.

Nate


-- those who call it "Politics" generally aren't any good at it

 

[o0_TreeMan_0o]

look at it this way. if you don't cut the tree, they will get someone else to. win the bid and then use casual conversation to educate them about the benifits of trees. then maybe you will have 20 years of work from them insted of one days worth.

 

[TREETX]

I have to agree with that theory. I would rather them have that asset in their yard. Plus a removal is usually a terminal relationship with the client. A good pruning can be done over the life of the tree but with removals,..........No tree, no tree care, end of relationship.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I also agree with Todd...

How sad to go to work just for a paycheck. How miserable to do substandard work and not care.
I try to do my best and take great pride in a job well done, it gives me great personal satisfaction. I look forward to going to work and feel good afterwards.
I believe this attitude will land me more work and more money to do it, not that the money is all that important.

 

[TREETX]

I take pride in my work and share mike's view that a good attitude, good service, and pride in work will lead to more clients and more money.

My objection is t the belief that a close focus on money somehow leads to a lack of integrity.

I get a lot of satisfaction from a job well done but I also get a lot of satisfaction from snowboarding in Austria during the slow season.

Life is a sh%t sandwich and money is bread - the more money you have, the less sh#t you have to taste.

 

[tshanefreeman]

"...A good pruning can be done over the life of the tree but with removals,..........No tree, no tree care, end of relationship."

How is topping (hat-racking), lion-tailing, or removing the entire side of a tree good pruning? Show me documentation from a creditable source that states that such practices are beneficial for a tree and I will stand down and begin to turn a blind eye.

"...No tree, no tree care, end of relationship."

I have found that customers typically appreciate honesty and as a result will likely return to you for additional work, even if in other trees, or they will pass on your name to their neighbors and friends. All that they have to hear is that topping is a myth from the past and that it is extremely detrimental to a tree and they will begin to question your qualifications and credientials..... They may wonder why this wasn't mentioned when they, the customer, originally brought up the idea. I don't speak for everyone, but that is certainly something that I would not want to worry about that as a young arborist.

"...What is wrong with money being a motivating factor in a tree care business?? Money, good money is the only way to provide good tree care. A person doing tree care just for the good of his heart is never going to do as good a job as the guy who is performing and excellent service for excellent compensation."

I never said that money was a bad thing or that I only work to settle my heart................. I too love money. I love working extremely hard and receiving that check upon completion of a difficult job. I love driving by previous job sites and looking at the work that I and my groundies did and smiling.......... I love holding the new gear and toys that I was able to purchase with the money that I made from working............ I honestly think that a person can make a lot of money without having to do everything that a customer wants them to do. This is why I said that I won't brand my name to such a practice........ I'm not that hard up for cash!

"...Since when is the ISA GOD?? Being certified just states that you have at least a MINIMAL amount of knowledge and skill."

Yet again, I didn't say that ISA was our GOD. All that was implied was that regulations and standards are good practice for they allow for consistency in our field, which allows people to judge whether the job was done well or just to make a quick buck! If the final product looks similiar to the work that all the arborists in the city are doing, well it must be right! I know that every arborist has their own techniques and practices, but as long as they are more-less consistent, the community of arborists will be viewed with more respect.............. and not as a community of individuals that own saws and a truck, thus making them qualified! At least it doesn't work that way where I'm from!

 

[geofore]

believe it

Out here they are building new homes and the land is stripped to the ground, that includes removing the sod. The builders pay to have acres of ground cleared to build yuppie homes, they shred and chip every tree on the property they build on and the yuppies plant new ones or not. The proposal was to build 22,000 new homes or dwellings out this way. Drive by today and there are trees ,come by tomorrow and there are no trees and no grass. The chips are turned under after the stumps are removed and there is no sod till the homes are built. They do anywhere from an acre to a square mile or more at a time. PA was clear cut once before. At least they are replanting some trees. You ever see 11,000 acres stripmined? They remove the trees.

 

[Newfie]

I'm all for property owners rights, but abutters have rights as well. Around here you just can't do stuff like that (trees or anything else) if it could have a detrimental effect on the property of your abutters. Say I had a view of the trees, which also provided a noise buffer. My neighbor cuts all the trees down and now I have a view of his junk filled backyard, the interstate down the block and all I can hear is traffic night and day. My property value just went in the toilet. Thats why we have bylaws and controls.

maybe everything in moderation? naw, people don't work that way.

 

[Acer]

Originally posted by Toddppm


Is this why you gave up your biz? I don't care if someone wants to take out their trees either but I do care about doing a proper job that I know I can go back later and hopefully have a repeat customer for a long time. Spike everything too? Guess theres just too much work there and not enough people to do it?

Yea, not enough people to do it properly. Once you start seeing everything in terms of making money, tree care will go down the pan. If people want to make lots of money, there are faster and easier ways of doing it than tree work. Become a plumber or an electrician.