Carabiner question.

[Sunrise Guy]

by the way i use a screw locking carabiner on my climbing line i aint forgot to screw it shut yet,what does everyone have against them?

Screw-lock carabiners can and DO unscrew when you are climbing through heavy foliage in the canopy. They are a big: DON'T USE 'EM! So far, you have been lucky. Maybe you don't do that much work aloft, I don't know. Don't take my word for it. Please read any authoritative books out there about climbing. All will tell you about the dangers of using screw-locks.

 

[046]

check out this accident getting ready to happen. I cut this knot off of a high rise window washer rig. bitter end was almost ready to back out with serious results.

this person was really lucky knot didn't fail. moral of the story is always leave enough tail to allow for rope slippage.

do like treesyder says and use a tripple fisherman to terminate with.
follow the link to spyder's mytreelessons, one of the best resources on the WWW.

A split tail in 2 leg/basket formation about demands a krab. These are about the best hitches around; especially in the self tending category.

A snap and krab are similar in that they are both single leg devices/hooks with fancy mousing. Both should be only loaded along their major/solid axis (only leveraging the short axis; rather than vice versa). But a snap is more self righting to this, by captive eye for rope connection, longer body, narrower(so better ratio of axis 2 different ways), and more 'dipped' hook.

A krab should only be used with self cinching knots (unless possibly to captive eye); so that it can't wander and become leveraged across or towards gate/ so as to not carry the force inline along it's solid, long axis. So a bowline, could allow a krab to cross-load, whereby a well set/choked triple Scaffold/Noose/Fisherman's won't.

MyTreeLessons.Com/Carabiner-Bowlines Warning​

 

[Fireaxman]

... once you read through it a couple times, and wrap your mind around it, a new climber can gain MUCH information and knowledge from his posts. Of all the people here, if I had to list people I've learned from, TheTreeSpyder would easily be in the top 3.

I need to say "Amen" to that. If you will take a few minutes to understand what TreeSpyder is telling you, you stand a very good chance of learning something.

He's in my top 2.

Whatever biner you use, I sure recomend key lock. It is amazing what that little hook on a pin lock will snag, and Murphy rules when it will happen.

 

[NeTree]

Forget the biners, go with a locking rope snap-easier to unsnap with gloves on.

Especially nice if you get one spliced into your rope.

 

[ADDA]

One of the best places to buy kit in the UK is Honey Brothers as they're also Arb Consultants......Always Aluminium 3 way or 4 way locking for any self load bearing gear and as many as you can afford. Buy a prussik loop and then buy a load of the same roap and make up your own to the same spec. This will save you a few quid. I tended to change my prussik loops fairly regularly to keep them moving smoothly. I'm a Tree Officer now so I may be out of date.

 

[okietreedude1]

If your worried about side loading the biner, get the captive eye style. You tie your knot into the eye and it will NEVER side load. I have one and sometimes use it. Mainly i use a DMM Boa and a spliced eye.

The captive eye I have is ISC.

As for the snaps, I used to use them. I do have one on my lanyard but thats it. And rope snaps are Not double locking. There is only one movement needed to open the gate. They are promoted as doubles but in reality, they arent.

 

[Adkpk]

I am confused. I use a spreader snap on my double dee saddle. I've been using biners to attach my climbing line with. After reading this post last night when I saddled up today I took out a rope snap and thought about trying it out. I went back to the biners, one for the line and the other for the split tail. I am not real impressed with what I read last night and watching those biners clank and twist around in that spreader clip. So I took off the spreader and but the biners on the dees, one on each dee with the spreader clip still attached That didn't impress me either. I went up with the setup I 've been using with the biners clanking around. Which I feel comfortable with but certainly what to get it right.
I get what is being said about the snap being in line as the biner can slip back to the open part. But my problem with snap is it's single locking and it won't fit in the spreader clip with a split tail setup. Does anyone else use one these spreader clips and how do you tie in?

 

[moray]

I'm always looking over your shoulder, Adrpk!

I have to admit I don't know what the spreader snap is supposed to do. Why not take both your biners, which sound like they are hooked up right, and clip them both into one Dee? The one on the split tail will be the only one that can clank around, since the other one is always loaded.

The clanking on your type saddle is no where near as problematic as on a bridge-type saddle, but it is still undesirable. If you take an 18 inch piece of string you can quickly tie them together, after they are clipped in. The whole affair is now quite stable--no more clanking.

If you have to pass a limb, it takes about 5 seconds to remove the string, allowing you to unclip one of the biners. You are starting to sound like one of the big dogs on AS!

 

[joesawer]

I am confused. I use a spreader snap on my double dee saddle. I've been using biners to attach my climbing line with. After reading this post last night when I saddled up today I took out a rope snap and thought about trying it out. I went back to the biners, one for the line and the other for the split tail. I am not real impressed with what I read last night and watching those biners clank and twist around in that spreader clip. So I took off the spreader and but the biners on the dees, one on each dee with the spreader clip still attached That didn't impress me either. I went up with the setup I 've been using with the biners clanking around. Which I feel comfortable with but certainly what to get it right.
I get what is being said about the snap being in line as the biner can slip back to the open part. But my problem with snap is it's single locking and it won't fit in the spreader clip with a split tail setup. Does anyone else use one these spreader clips and how do you tie in?

Rather than tying a biner to the rope and then clipping it to the spreader, I just tie the rope to the spreader.

 

[Stumper]

Adrpk, Back in the days when I used a spreader snap I tied directly to it with a long tail and tied my climbing hitch with that tail-old school and effective but it isn't nearly as nice as a split tail system when you need to redirect or pass a limb. What saddle are you using?
You may be able to dispense with the spreader ...or you may need it for comfort. Some saddles are not well suited to certain climbing styles ( and some work but just pinch).

 

[Adkpk]

I am using a Weaver double dee. I like using the split tail and if I tie the rope directly to it the tail won't fit. I tried it without the spreader. I put the climb line on one dee and the split tail on the other I wasn't sure if that was the recommended way to tie in so I went back to biners. I am very comfortable with the saddle btw. Didn't image it would be so comfortable to climb in one. Maybe I should start a new thread and call it double dees, think it will get some attention.

 

[gumneck]

I also use a Weaver with two sliding d's. However I have never found a need to use a spreader snap. I think it's unnecessary for you but there may be some reason that warrants its use.

I'm always tied in twice(double ended wire core lanyard and safety line up above).

Tom

 

[joesawer]

I use a double D saddle and a spreader makes it much more comfortable, but I have a less slim butt and thighs than most climbers.
I tie the spreader directly to the rope and still have room for a biner and split tail.
I do not think you should ever attach the climbing line to one lower D and the split tail to the other.

 

[gumneck]

I use a double D saddle and a spreader makes it much more comfortable, but I have a less slim butt and thighs than most climbers.
I tie the spreader directly to the rope and still have room for a biner and split tail.
I do not think you should ever attach the climbing line to one lower D and the split tail to the other.

When you say double d, do you mean you have a D on each side and then two sliding D's in the middle? And you still use the spreader.

 

[ropensaddle]

I use a rope snap locking primary line as I have come to trust them
over twenty years if I did use a biner it would be a thimble eye design
to prevent loading its axis in event of fall.

 

[clearance]

I use a rope snap locking primary line as I have come to trust them
over twenty years if I did use a biner it would be a thimble eye design
to prevent loading its axis in event of fall.

Rope snape, yes. The biner I sometimes use is a triple locking DMM Wales, and it is steel.

 

[joesawer]

When you say double d, do you mean you have a D on each side and then two sliding D's in the middle? And you still use the spreader.

No sliding Ds. The Ds are fixed to the ends of the butt strap. They are desinged to both be fastened into the same rope snap. Due to my larger than average legs, for the upper Ds to be in the right place the Lower Ds really constrict my thighs without a spreader.
There has been some study and discussion about the butt strap saddles causing hip joint problems with prolonged use. The baton (butt board) saddle has come about as a result. I tried one a few years ago and really liked it. It was like sitting in a chair. It may not be good for some one moving around a lot, doing a lot of pruning, but for big take downs it was the cats meow.

 

[beowulf343]

I do not think you should ever attach the climbing line to one lower D and the split tail to the other.

Really? I do it all the time on my pinnacle-makes it sweet if you have to walk through your rope.


As for a spreader, when i used a buttstrap without a bosun seat, i used to take two rope snaps, turn them in opposite directions and tie my rope to them.

 

[ropensaddle]

Rope snape, yes. The biner I sometimes use is a triple locking DMM Wales, and it is steel.

Does it have a captive eye? I had some bad buck straps just
cut the snaps off them and used them for snap works fine, one
of them did not lock the way I liked cleaned the sap off and put it
on a hand line. I also have a ladder snap but don't really like the
size of it unless I am throwing rope the only biner I have came on
the flip line I ordered off baileys biner snap combo I like it beats
a buck strap for climbing large trees with spurs have a buck strap also
on my side for positioning to make cut and added security. I have climbed
without a snap too and that is probably the safest but definitely slowest
way.

 

[Sassafras]

biners or snaps or saddles

I would like to throw out an overview of what i have read in this post
My personal preference, Petzl ball lock, on both sides, anchor and hitch. I like it, it is most efficent for me. Screw lock carabiners have been known to open or unscrew. Rope snaps are double action. I saw a demonstration of a rope snap manipulated in a D-ring on a saddle just held and twisted, it opened and came off the D immediately. (Enter plunge to death). Can it happen just that way while you are climbing, who's to say it can't. Take that for what it is worth. The ball locks have 3 distinct motions to open them. As for side loading a carabiner try some of the binding knots like buntline, anchor hitch, double fishermans knot, etc. You can even tie a larger eye bowline and girth hitch your biner. A larger eye splice can also be girth hiched. I am not positive but i think this is one of the new standards for carabiner use to prevent side loading. I will look into it.
A relaxing thought is the ratings on our equip and the relatively light loads a climber generates. As someone said earlier our equip is not designed for fall arrest merely suspension and positioning. When do we ever shock load our climbing equip?
Its all rated to be way safer than it needs to be. But if anyone wants to open that can of worms, lets start a new thread.